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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Chassis out w/ pictures
PostPosted: May Sun 27, 2012 12:19 am 
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Quote:
Zenith wattage specs are 1/0th Watt for the 27 and 125 Ohm section, and 1.5 watts for the 300 Ohm section.
Customary to double or triple the Wattage value on replacements to ensure long life.


Can I use 5W power resistors for all three of them?

300 ohm 5W
30 ohm 5W ------ They don't have a 27 ohm one, is 30 a problem?
150 ohm 5W ----- They don't have a 125 ohm one either, should I use 120 ohm or 150 ohm?

Also, seems they're out of 22uF 450V axial lytics. I have one 22uF in stock, but I need one more. Can I use a 25uF one in place of the 20uF one and my 22uF one in place of the 16uF one?

Thanks Dale.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Chassis out w/ pictures
PostPosted: May Sun 27, 2012 1:41 am 
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Location: Phila Pa
radiopicker wrote:
Quote:
Zenith wattage specs are 1/0th Watt for the 27 and 125 Ohm section, and 1.5 watts for the 300 Ohm section.
Customary to double or triple the Wattage value on replacements to ensure long life.


Can I use 5W power resistors for all three of them?

300 ohm 5W
30 ohm 5W ------ They don't have a 27 ohm one, is 30 a problem?
150 ohm 5W ----- They don't have a 125 ohm one either, should I use 120 ohm or 150 ohm?

Also, seems they're out of 22uF 450V axial lytics. I have one 22uF in stock, but I need one more. Can I use a 25uF one in place of the 20uF one and my 22uF one in place of the 16uF one?

Thanks Dale.

Yes to all of the above,,,,,
WIll be fine,
What did the Candohm read?
Go with the 120 Ohm.
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Chassis out w/ pictures
PostPosted: May Sun 27, 2012 2:12 am 
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radiopicker wrote:
I put together a parts list. Overall, well capacitors anyway, not too many discrepancies. I will get what I found in the chassis plus whatever is in the schematic that I couldn't find. Question, the 3 section candohm values are 300, 27, and 125 ohms. A wattage is not listed for them. What wattage should I use? Also, do I have to use "special" resistors or can I just get the standard carbon ones like the rest?

I'm placing the order with Justradios.com tonight, I've got a dial belt on it's way, I've found two out of the 5 tubes I need, and Peter (Pred) is kindly sending me a resistor set up to drop the AC main voltage.


OF course the 6H6 is a dual diode. There is no grid.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Chassis out w/ pictures
PostPosted: May Sun 27, 2012 2:38 am 
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Do I have the signal traced correctly or no? The way I have it, the signal didn't hit the other plate...
I placed my capacitor and resistor order.

I have to do some research on how to test the candohm sections, any tips?

Will be quiet for a little while, waiting to find all the tubes I need, the two I ordered to arrive, a dial belt, and capacitors/resistors. Thanks for the help so far everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Parts Ordered
PostPosted: May Sun 27, 2012 2:47 am 
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Just test each section of the Candohm, They should test as you see them. And then test them to chassis,
Why are you getting new tubes?
I would think that they are ok.
On most occasions I get a radio to work before swapping parts out, Just swap the Lytics and the grid caps if you really want, Run er' up on the variac with a dim bulb up to 80V, That should get the set playing.
In the last lets say 100 tubes worth of radios I had to replace maybe 6 tubes.
Sometimes replacing a weak output for a stronger one OK, Or a Microphonic one for a quiet one OK, But why all of them Seems like money would be spent somewhere else better,
Just my opinion.
Do the Lytics and Grid caps and get it playing, It will be pretty safe.
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Parts Ordered
PostPosted: May Sun 27, 2012 2:58 am 
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Quote:
And then test them to chassis


What do you mean by this, how do I do that?

I've attached my readings. The reason I'm getting new tubes is because A) the previous serviceman used incorrect substitutes, see first few posts. B) I broke a grid cap off one (again, someone smack me :oops:) and C) I'd like all glass shoulder style tubes. Seeing as there are only 6 tubes, 2 incorrect and one broken, I'd like to just start fresh. That's just me. I NEVER replace all tubes, but this radio is special to me, so I'm just going to go the extra mile.

Quote:
Grid caps


What do you mean by do the grid caps? Clean them? There is something suspicious, now that I think of it. There's a jumper wire coming off the first gang (in from the dial) and it's simply wrapped around the insulation on the second gangs wire that goes to the 6A8G grid cap. I can take a picture if that helps. It appears, as is, to have no purpose..


Attachments:
Screen Shot 2012-05-26 at 9.48.10 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2012-05-26 at 9.48.10 PM.jpg [ 15.55 KiB | Viewed 396 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Parts Ordered
PostPosted: May Sun 27, 2012 4:04 am 
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The jumper wire on the tuning cap.....it definitely has a purpose.
It is called a "gimmick" cap. Don't mess with it or try to connect the free end to something.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Parts Ordered
PostPosted: May Sun 27, 2012 7:35 am 
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radiopicker wrote:
Quote:
And then test them to chassis


What do you mean by this, how do I do that?

I've attached my readings. The reason I'm getting new tubes is because A) the previous serviceman used incorrect substitutes, see first few posts. B) I broke a grid cap off one (again, someone smack me :oops:) and C) I'd like all glass shoulder style tubes. Seeing as there are only 6 tubes, 2 incorrect and one broken, I'd like to just start fresh. That's just me. I NEVER replace all tubes, but this radio is special to me, so I'm just going to go the extra mile.

Quote:
Grid caps


What do you mean by do the grid caps? Clean them? There is something suspicious, now that I think of it. There's a jumper wire coming off the first gang (in from the dial) and it's simply wrapped around the insulation on the second gangs wire that goes to the 6A8G grid cap. I can take a picture if that helps. It appears, as is, to have no purpose..

The Candohm looks close enough to me,
300,30,150., The 300 section reads a bit high, Maybe give the solder a quick scrape and see what happens, If it does not shape up, Maybe go ahead and replace the sections, May as well do them all,
Forgive me about replacing all the tubes, I didn't go back and revisit all the posts,
The Candohm has a spot where it is soldered to the chassis, You can test from chassis to each tab on candohm and you should get same readings...
On the candohms usually only find the big value ones gone south, Like in the 9 tubers +, where there is a 10K section and the like,
You're doing good so far ! !! !
And Yes at times I will replace the tubes to the correct style tubes in the set for "Correctness"
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Parts Ordered
PostPosted: May Tue 29, 2012 11:06 pm 
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I'm just going to go ahead and replace the candohm sections. I really want this set to be "perky". First I will do the lytics and power it up. Anyway, I'm still waiting for parts from Justradios. I still need 3 Zenith etched tubes, Bueller, Bueller..... :lol: . I got the dropping resistor today. THANK YOU SO MUCH PETER!!!!! I also got the dial belt as well.
While I'm waiting for parts, I'd like to replace the string in place of the dial belt. I did some reading and I see a lot of guys cut an O ring and glue it back together for easy installation. I bought the a belt from Adam so I'm going to give it a go. Here's a picture of what's going on. I have no clue what is going on here. Do I have to remove the dial and pointer :shock:?

How exactly do I go about installing this new belt?

Thanks everyone!


Attachments:
dial belt .jpg
dial belt .jpg [ 142.57 KiB | Viewed 372 times ]
File comment: THANK YOU PETER (PRED)!!!!!!!!!!!
resistor .jpg
resistor .jpg [ 176.63 KiB | Viewed 372 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Dial Belt Installation
PostPosted: May Wed 30, 2012 1:21 am 
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Holes are for the spring that puts tension on the tensioner pulley. Loosen the pulleys at the front of the radio (and anything else attached to the tuning shaft) and slide the shaft forward. Then you can loop the belt over the end of the shaft.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Dial Belt Installation
PostPosted: May Wed 30, 2012 1:25 am 
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Not familiar with this model, but pointers should pull off. Probably have to remove dial pan to get belt around top pulley.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Dial Belt Installation
PostPosted: May Wed 30, 2012 1:27 am 
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I like the ribbed nylon Sony VCR capstan belts for this job.
They'll last a lifetime, and they tune as smooth as silk.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Parts Ordered
PostPosted: May Wed 30, 2012 3:29 am 
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Hope you get your parts soon and remember 1 drop of oil on all bushings before new belt goes on,
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Dial Belt Installation
PostPosted: Jun Sat 09, 2012 4:50 am 
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Finally got the dial belt on tonight. Just need to find a spring for the tensioner pulley. I had to remove the dial glass, scale, pointers, then I slipped the belt through the hole in the pan where the shaft comes through (Thanks for that ingenious tip Sofaslug). Got the belt on the top pulley. Fed it down through the chassis. Then I had to remove the fly wheel which turned into a 2 hour project (just my luck), so I could pull the shaft forward far enough/get the belt onto it. Then I put everything back together. It's looking good. How do I go about oiling the bushings, where are they located and what oil should I use?
I want to start recapping so bad, but I'm still waiting for someone to come forth with the two tubes I need :lol: :lol:

Schools out in 2 days, then I've got 4 regents to take care of, and then I'm home free!

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Need two tubes!
PostPosted: Jun Sat 09, 2012 1:57 pm 
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While you have the dial drive system apart, may as well give all the bearing points a cleaning and a very small amount of lubrication. The tuning dial systems on these sets really operate smoothly once you have them working as they should mechanically.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Need two tubes!
PostPosted: Jun Sat 09, 2012 2:27 pm 
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processhead wrote:
While you have the dial drive system apart, may as well give all the bearing points a cleaning and a very small amount of lubrication. The tuning dial systems on these sets really operate smoothly once you have them working as they should mechanically.


Exactly.
Doing a half-assed job only amounts to future problems and endless threads of "what do I do nowwww?"

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Need two tubes!
PostPosted: Jun Sat 09, 2012 8:51 pm 
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I spray painted the inside of the pan fresh flat white, hopefully that will make the dial POP in the dark. There was rust on the back, I couldn't tell whether it was painted or bare metal. I scrubbed the rusty area with steel wool but it took the paint off, so I wound up scrubbing the whole thing. I didn't like the looks of the VERY shiny bare metal, so I spray painted it this nice silver. Looks much better now.
I'm debating whether I should purchase new volume/tone/band indicators from Mark Opatt. Foreign is dark/dirty. I'm assuming I can't wipe the dirt off of these :shock:
Also, here's a picture of the dial belt from up top. I got a spring today. It works nicely. I rinsed the gears with CRC and then lubricated them with a touch of 3-in-1 oil. If I turn the dial fast sometimes, there seems to be a little grind/friction. I'm not sure, I think something may be snagging underneath, I have to check.
I really would like to throughouly clean the tuning cap. it's not horrendous but deserves a cleaning. I contemplated removing it but there are so many wires connected to it underneath, I better leave well enough alone.
Any opinions/tips/ideas on how to go about cleaning it?
Also, there are no bulb diffusers in this radio, I'm assuming that's OK?

That's all for now. Making progress!


Attachments:
white pan.jpg
white pan.jpg [ 171.27 KiB | Viewed 301 times ]
grey pan.jpg
grey pan.jpg [ 176.88 KiB | Viewed 301 times ]
dial belt.jpg
dial belt.jpg [ 160.32 KiB | Viewed 301 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Need two tubes!
PostPosted: Jun Sun 10, 2012 1:45 am 
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You need bulb diffusers unless you want to burn holes through the dial,
You can use white plastic from a milk jug, From plastic containers or even white slats from a mini blind, Lots of white options for you.
Leave the tuning cap be,
Did you wire in the Lytics and the cap on the output tube and fire it up yet?
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- Need two tubes!
PostPosted: Jun Mon 11, 2012 4:46 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkOjv4xS0sE

Well that's all I have to say, for right now anyway. Will add more to this reply in depth tomorrow, it's late right now, I can barely hold my eyes open.

THANK YOU, EVERYONE.

UPDATE:
Okay, I spent a whole day wiring in the lytics, nice and neat under the chassis. Then I replaced the 6F6 output tube capacitor as per Pred (Should I do this for all radios, why is this a good idea). I also replaced one resistor that was on the same terminal as one of the lytics.
Then pulled all the tubes, sprayed the pins with CRC contact cleaner. I rubbed each pin with a scotch brite pad, then gave each one another spray with the CRC. Then I sprayed the sockets, and plugged and unplugged each tube a few times to clean the sockets.
Then I cleaned all of the grid caps and wires thoroughly.
I sprayed the volume pot, tone control, and band switch as well.
Now it's time to put the dial back together. For bulb diffusers I cut a roughly 2" by 3/4" rectangle out of a plastic milk jug. I made two, and slid them in front of the bulbs. Then I put the dial scale on, and the gasket, and the glass. Let me just say, what a PITA :shock:, especially doing it by yourself. One slip of that glass and it's over...........
Get this, at about this time, it's 11pm. I get the dial all hooked up, and then I look to the side, the needles were still sitting on the bench......................................... :twisted: :twisted:. I'll never do that again. I became more skilled at reinstalling the dial assembly, so the second time around wasn't too bad, thank god.
I cleaned the antenna terminals, as well as the jumper and sprayed them with CRC.
I hooked up a 15" wire to the A terminal, with the G and Z terminal shorted together.
I went through the dim bulb test with rectifier removed, all tested good, put it back in and hooked up the DBT again, tested good. Plugged the radio straight into an outlet, turned it on, and it came to life. It wasn't playing through the dim bulb tester, I guess it was eating too much voltage.
For my first few trials I forgot to have the speaker plugged in (at this point I was delirious). It wasn't on for long, maybe a minute or two, not even, I hope I didn't fry anything. But I turned my transmitter on and it plays beautifully.
The sound is incredible, puts my other projects to shame. I'm ecstatic. My Dad and I built a speaker stand because it was causing distortion lying around on the bench before, when the radio is not in use I have a cardboard flap covering the cone for protection.
I replaced two more caps tonight, and I powered it up, again, I'm blown away, It's getting better!!! Shortwave is amazing, there's a loud and clear station every 1/8 of an inch on the dial.. Oldies in BASS mode sound warm, rich, phenomenal. I listened to it fot about 10-12 minutes tonight, I know I probably shouldn't with some old caps and resistors still in there, but I could not resist :D.

As far as resistors, I want to replace as many as I can, especially if they're on a terminal with a cap, but I replaced one, and came across another that read right on 1K ohms, which it should be, in circuit. I attached a heat sink and left it in place. I can always replace it, I hope it doesn't compromise performance. But like I said, it can always be replaced later if need be. I will replace the ones that are out of tolerance though, checking as I go................Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it reads under value, unhook one side, if it reads over, but within tolerance, leave it.

That's all for now. I will continue recapping as I find time. Stay tuned.


Attachments:
600852_4130045620612_239968644_n.jpg
600852_4130045620612_239968644_n.jpg [ 165.04 KiB | Viewed 252 times ]
dial.jpg
dial.jpg [ 84.14 KiB | Viewed 275 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6-S-254 Restoration -- SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!
PostPosted: Jun Mon 18, 2012 11:54 pm 
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Just about done with the recap. This one went unusually simple, except for a few pieces that were buried. I have one more paper cap to go.
There are only a handful of resistors and mica caps in there, so they're all gone. I'm still looking for (2) 500pF 630V caps, a 25pF 630V cap, a 33K 1W resistor, and a 390K 1/2W resistor.
I accidentally purchased polystyrene type caps. I know they're supposedly better, but they are a bit too delicate and my main issue is that for some reason the leads won't reach from terminal to terminal. Besides, I have one of those "black drop" radial type from justradios so I'd like my pF caps to match. That's just me.
Anyway, as many of you may know I had an issue with less volume after a semi recap/re-resistor near the volume pot. Turns out I had a 1K resistor in place of a 1Meg resistor :shock:
Needless to say I put the right one in and now at level 4 of 15, it rattles the windows! Amazing how something like that can have such an effect. I'm glad I caught it before I continued on!
I restuffed the paper cap on the tone control because it can be seen above the chassis. I enjoyed the restuffing process, and I'm thinking I will do that for my next radio. It wasn't all that difficult and it sure does look nice.
Coming along very well. It doesn't pick up much BCB but then again, what's new for around here? My SSTRAN and this radio are a great match. Once the recap/re-resistor is done, I will preform a complete alignment and it should be ready to go back into the cabinet.
P.S. I really would like to replace the candohm just in case in opens for some reason. I want this radio to go another 70+ years. I'm going to need a terminal strip, I'm not sure where to get one. Also, I purchased 5W resistors. I went from 27ohm to 30ohm, but my big question for the day is for the 125ohm one, do I use a 120 or a 150? I purchased both, just in case.

Opinions?
That's all for now. I will continue to update. This is my favorite radio by far!

Image

Image

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