Depends on the console. A nice console with big speaker and plenty of audio output power most certainly can sound good.

Theoretically, a larger room should help increase the bass, but room acoustics can be a funny thing. Carpeting and other sound absorbing pieces of furniture will help tame the harshness of the sound.

Paul Klipsch came across a great idea to promote deep bass quality in speakers by coming up with a folded horn design that sits in a corner of a room. The walls effectively become the horn and the larger the horn, the lower the frequency response. So you have the room becoming the speaker. The larger the room, the deeper the bass response.

Many years ago, I heard Doug Houston's Electro-Voice Patrician IV which is a Klipsch horn enclosure. The moment the needle touched the record of the phonograph connected to it, a deep bass shock wave which I could not believe filled the room!

Yes, a huge 18" woofer inside such an enclosure is probably the ultimate bass speaker!

-Steve

This is what I was trying to get at in the begining. These radios do have an amazingly good sound quality and deep bass for the time period they were created. I spent years as an audiophile chasing spec's for the "perfect" equipment. Two things kind of changed my mind. The first was a article in a top audiophile magazine that was about how the color in the various wire covering affected the overal sound quality of an amplifier(not joking) due to metalic particles used to make the colors. The second was a store that had a blind test room for equipment they sold. They could switch various speakers and amplifiers in an out and you could choose what you thought sounded best. Well needless to say I challenge any audiophile to try this because you will be amazed at the equipment you choose(some of it being "low" quality" or poorly spec'ed). This is not to diminish or put down the pursuit of fine audio equipment but just to make the point that ultimatly it is your ears and personal preference that determines sound quality and not spec's or an article some "expert" wrote in a magazine. Another thing a little off topic but does pertain to the general disscussion. Most people think that tudes are always "better" in terms of sound quality. I mentioned before that I am a bass player but I am also a guitar player. It is my personal opinion that when it comes to sound quality with a guitar you can not in any way beat an old tube amp. They just simply sound better. But when it caomes to bass amps (again my opinion) transister amps sound way better than tube amps. So I just feel that there is not hard fast rule as to what is better just let your own ears determine what is best for you. You will ultimately be happier and will probably have more money in your pocket! Back to the radios, oh course the console radios of the 30's through 50's will not match the fore mention Klipsh speakers in bass response but to say they don't have a deep bass response is a little missleading at best.

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Regarding bass, and overall fidelity, of 1940 radios -- yes they sound good, but they don't sound accurate.

The big wood cabinet does a lot to add to the bass. Some of it is resonance, some of it is harmonics, but the cabinet design is such that it enhances the bass notes, in much the same way a violin's casing enhances the sound of the strings.

More modern stereo systems use speakers that reproduce the sound, coloring it as little as possible so as to keep the sound as accurate to the original as you can get.

Does a 1940 console radio sound the same as a more modern stereo? Of course not! But dioes it sound GOOD? Yes. In fact, take an oldtime radio broadcast and listen on both the console and the stereo (via FM if possible, or play the record or tape). It will actually sound BETTER on the console. Why? because the console was designed around the lesser fidelity of the day. Oh, some will argue that AM has the ability to legally send up to 10k or 15k, whatever, but in reality this is not only a rolloff, but the IF's of the radio are such that you probably don't get much over 4k in terms of flat response. Then, you have noise and interference, possible surface noise if it's a transcription, lousy reproductions at time right from the studio, and any limitations of any other factor that comes between the microphone and the speaker. As the radio rolls off the treble, it also filters the noise. It's replaced by the resonant sound coloring of the console cabinet. From the stereo, all the noises and flaws come sailing through for everyone to hear.

On the other hand, with modern music you hear background instrumnts in the stereo that you won't hear from the console -- because the reproduction is less accurate.

I think the beauty of these old consoles is the fact that they could take a crappy recording broadcast over an AM radio signal, and make it sound not only pleasant, but impressive.

I do agree. I find that I like Doo Wop and music along the lines of Dean Martin and other singers along the same lines better through my console radios even though I can get stereo audio and better fidelity through my stereo. Plus it is nice to hear music through the console that was originally heard on the console.

mcpherjc, I don't quite understand what you mean by deep bass for the time period they were created. If you mean they do not have the same kind of bass as modern speakers do you're right, but the console speakers do reproduce the deep bass.

In all honesty it really depends on what a person's definition of deep bass is.

My definition of deep bass sound is frequencies below 50 Hz reproduced by any speaker without any eq except what is needed to correct for the room itself, but for console radios no eq except what is provided on the console in the form of tone control(s) if such are provided.

I do know that if my parents are in bed and I turn up my RCA K-80 console too loud one of them will come out to my building (maybe 100 FT or less from the house) and ask me to turn it down as they can hear the bass produced by the console.

I think in the end we are saying the same thing. I am giving credit to how well they designed these radios long before computer aided design, modern folded horn and ported cabinet designs, and sources with a very wide frequency response.. All I know is I love the sound of my radio deep bass and all.

Yup.

I do agree that any type of cabinet will color the sound. How much depends on the enclosure and speaker design.

Hey an old man has to get his beauty sleep!!! As far as highjacking the thread the topic was, "console radio sound".! I saw no prohibition such as "which has the best sound" or "It is amazing how good older consoles sound for their age" ( A statement I FULLY and completely supported by me), I own three and derive great satisfaction from their sweet sound, sensitivity that equals almost any AM radio today, almost works of art, but not low bass ( the main subject of your post ) however please don't try to infer that they can do justice to a broadcasts of works such as "Thus Spake Zarathustra"that even the late 1950's early 60's Scott and Fisher consoles produce FAR better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekmk6zb_YWc. However I do respect your opinion so If you want to debate what can't be debated I'll take this to the clubhouse. Oh by the way if a rhinestone feels like a diamond and looks like a diamond it must be..........

Ever notice that an AA-5 clock radio tends to sound better than a plain-old AA-5? The works are identical but the clock cabinet is slightly larger. Fractions of inches matter.

I've put the same Zenith 1004 chassis in both a 10S130 tombstone cabinet with an 8-inch speaker and a 10S153 cabinet with a 12-inch speaker. The difference in sound is very dramatic.

Bob

1947 Magnavox Regency Symphony

It has a 20-watt power amp and two 12-inch electro dynamic speakers of different resonant frequencies to reduce boom.

This console hits such low bass and the speaker cones hardly move. Room location is important, it needs to be strategically placed for the best sound.



1947 Magnavox Regency Symphony by 45 Victrola, on Flickr


1947 Magnavox Regency Symphony by 45 Victrola, on Flickr

...and an AA5 with an 8-inch speaker, a large output transformer and a dual tapped loudness control actually has eye opening bass.


1949 RCA Victor 9-X-561 Table Radio by 45 Victrola, on Flickr

How does the midrange sound? If it is a bit harsh a couple Isophon DP-19 cone tweeters will fix that and extend the upper range so the cm tuner sounds better through the console.

The sound wasn't harsh. It was clearer and cleaner, better balanced than many other sets from the same era. It was amazing how real a solo piano sounded on this set but the high end was not as good as a '50s Magnavox using a similar power amp. I mounted a couple of RCA hard paper cone tweeters co-axially on the cross bars in front of the 12 inch speakers and made a few modifications I copied from later versions of the same model power amp. That added a little high frequency sparkle to the sound.
It has a wideband AM tuner with a 10Khz whistle filter so it has quite good high end on AM. The set didn't have the optional FM tuner but I had an Eico tuner with adjustable cathode follower output that fits well and works great. The original Webster 78-rpm record changer was replaced by the original owner with an early ‘50s 3-speed Webster with a 4-pole motor. I changed the cartridge to a Pickering NP/AC and added a little stand alone 6SC7 phono pre-amp.

Nice!!

Very nice work there.

I'm pretty impressed with mine although i find lack of tonal control flexibility a bit disappointing. The 4 position tone control switch limits fine tuning of highs. Maybe they found a treble pot useless when no tweeters were present. I do know it's the most powerful piece of vintage equipment I own.

When i need enough power and total tone flexibility for these old ears, i rely on my Electrohome Companion phono console. A 15" woofer, 9" mid range and 2 horn tweeters make for amazing monaural listening. This mid '50's offering was meant to be mated to a tuner/speaker combo with matching cabinet, which I don't have. I'm not much on listening to vinyl so i've usually got my multiband RCA Globetrotter connected to it.

Bruce Webster

Both bass and treble controls have subtle effect. The treble works differently than most. It cuts the treble starting at different roll-off frequencies. Most treble controls vary the amplitude of a single roll-off frequency. Back in the late '40s there was a step change in record cutter heads bringing the high end from 8 kHz up to around 14 kHz. There is a big difference in pre-war and post war recordings that could be heard easily on The Magnavox Regency even before I added the tweeters.

The Regency Symphony sold for $410 in '47. That would be equivalent to over $4,200 today.

oh no the capacitor stuffers will be getting all up in a wad for changing the authenticity of the speakers in the console. Magnovox made some pretty decent equipment. I like mine. it does have high/low range speakers. not audiophile but suits my needs. real bass and treble amplification. 6V6 p/p stereo. AM/FM receiver/record changer. nice furniture mahogany horizontal cabinet late 50s early 60s somewhere in there. although the uprights make a good place for lamps and such I cant place anything on this sliding top