Zenith & Ingraham Cabinets: Myth or Real?

Samham · **Posted:** Sep Mon 29, 2008 11:33 pm

I see various Zenith radios for sale on eBay, with claims that they have Ingraham cases. I've been thru Zenith: The Glory Years, which covers the era in which I'm interested but didn't see any mention of Ingraham. Ditto with Slusser or Stein's books.

Can someone tell me if it's seller-hype or true? If true, is there any listing that identifies the Ingraham cased models?

Thanks!

k9uwa · **Posted:** Sep Tue 30, 2008 12:07 am

Samham wrote:

I see various Zenith radios for sale on eBay, with claims that they have Ingraham cases. I've been thru Zenith: The Glory Years, which covers the era in which I'm interested but didn't see any mention of Ingraham. Ditto with Slusser or Stein's books.

Can someone tell me if it's seller-hype or true? If true, is there any listing that identifies the Ingraham cased models?

Thanks!

Don't know Sam of any listing that shows all the Ingraham Cabinets
for Zeniths... but some of them definitely ARE ingraham .. I think
the 6D525 perhaps is?... don't remember...
John k9uwa

Samham · **Posted:** Sep Tue 30, 2008 1:24 am

Thanks John! At least now I know that it's not a myth.

PTurney · **Posted:** Sep Tue 30, 2008 1:32 am

Hi,

There is some controversy on this point, as few makers were actually authorized to display the Ingraham sticker on their sets. I'll refer you Ed Cook's (aka Ingrahaman) write-up on the matter (scroll down to bottom of page):-

http://www.oldradiocrazy.com/EDCOOK.HTM

Yet more discussion, in connection with Silvertone, may be found here:-

http://www.sfhobbies.com/sfhobbies/radi ... /index.jsp

Paul www.tuberadioland.com

k9uwa · **Posted:** Sep Tue 30, 2008 1:35 am

Samham wrote:

Thanks John! At least now I know that it's not a myth.

and as Paul said... the Ingraham Zeniths will have the Ingraham label on them.

John k9uwa

Martin Blankinship · **Posted:** Sep Tue 30, 2008 3:21 am

I have never seen a Zenith with an Ingraham label on it. Please read this earlier thread regarding what I found in Commander McDonald's files at Zenith:

http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtop ... h+ingraham

John or Paul, can you get me a photo of one of these Zeniths with an Ingraham tag on it?

PTurney · **Posted:** Sep Tue 30, 2008 3:29 am

Hi,

Martin, I've never seen a Zenith with such a tag.

Paul www.tuberadioland.com

Martin Blankinship · **Posted:** Sep Tue 30, 2008 3:30 am

I stated on this forum on April 5, 2005 in that thread:

Quote:

I would like to find out more about the Zenith "Ingraham" cabinets, since I have seen no stamps or Ingraham stickers on any 1941 Zenith of mine.
As a matter of fact, last summer, while going through McDonald's Archives, I found some correspondence between Commander McDonald and his patent attorneys regarding getting on board with Emerson to patent some cabinets similar to the Ingraham cabinets. I don't have the memos in front of me, but I am fairly sure that models 6D525, 6D526 and 6S528 were discussed in it. The discussions specifically concerned the speaker grill bars, and how they were similar to Ingraham's styling. It sounds like Zenith and Emerson were competing with Ingraham.

I would like to see proof of Ingraham's participation as a Zenith cabinet vendor.

I may have to go find this memo in my files.

sofaslug · **Posted:** Sep Tue 30, 2008 3:55 am

I don't know for sure one way or the other, but I've always felt that the 6D525 looked too simple in its design to have been made by Ingraham, even though it's a nice looking radio. So many eBay sellers call this model an Ingraham that people assume that it must be the case, yet I've never seen one with an Ingraham label or tag on it. If Ingraham really made it, surely they'd have put their name on it and at least one would have survived.

Bob

Samham · **Posted:** Sep Tue 30, 2008 4:46 am

The info showing up in this thread is great. The model I'm most interested in is the 6S528, one of which I recently acquired. Its design is certainly consistent with Ingraham style, but there is no label.

I'll keep watching and learning!

Thanks.

Arran · **Posted:** Oct Fri 03, 2008 7:23 am

I don't even pay attention to the "Ingraham" claims anymore, it's just another buzz word that fleabay sellers use to keyword spam the search engines. A few others use "Art Deco", "Deco", "Emes era", or TV show tie ins, used just to push their auctions. The Ingraham claim has become so erroneous and indiscriminate that I have even seen it applied to Canadian made radios where it would be extremely unlikely. Just as a note of reference the vast majority of Canadian radios had their wooden cabinets built by Canadian cabinetry and furniture companies, aside from some of the big makes, like RCA, CGE, and Electrohome, that had their own cabinet plants. I would imagine that Zenith also had it's own cabinet plant given their scale of production.
Best Regards
Arran

Peter · **Posted:** Oct Fri 03, 2008 12:34 pm

The only radios I own with Ingraham tags are a couple General Electric models, and of course the Emersons.

I have many radios that are "attributed" to Ingraham by collectors and guidebooks, but they lack tags. These include Firestones, Silvertones, and Zeniths.

I believe these radios are not in fact Ingraham cabinets, but are simply "in the style" of Ingraham.

Peter

Curt Reed · **Posted:** Oct Fri 03, 2008 12:47 pm

Just what, may I ask, constitutes the "Ingraham Style" of cabinets? Are there any distinctive things that stand out?
Curt

sofaslug · **Posted:** Oct Fri 03, 2008 2:28 pm

Curt Reed wrote:

Just what, may I ask, constitutes the "Ingraham Style" of cabinets? Are there any distinctive things that stand out?
Curt

One characteristic is that they often have wood surfaces that are unusually curved with corresponding bent veneers. The Emerson Strad is a case in point. The top, front, and left side meet in a complex curve that would be difficult to duplicate without a good amount of woodworking skill and equipment. Ingrahams often have intricate carving and difficult-to-duplicate inlays such as those on the Strad.

By way of example, the grille bars on the Strad are similar to those on the Zenith 6D525, but are more complex in shape. The rest of the cabinet is much more intricate -- the Zenith is lacks the carvings, intricate shape/borders, and inlays of the Strad.

Bob

Why Y · **Posted:** Oct Fri 03, 2008 2:31 pm

Quote:

I sold a dozen NOS brass Ingraham name plates on ebay so I take it maybe some plates were missing or never installed.

This is quote from

http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/vie ... be32add523

These sold tags could be put on any cabinets.

.

hoffies2 · **Posted:** Oct Fri 03, 2008 3:05 pm

I wrote that statement and it's true. They could have been tacked on any radio. They sold for $20.00 apiece.

k9uwa · **Posted:** Oct Fri 03, 2008 3:35 pm

There are also some Emerson Ingraham Cabinets that are really rather plain jane as well as the more intricate inlays and styles.. Wife collects the Emersons... so there are a bunch of them here. I have shown her a few that she didn't want because they were plain jane.
Also I have seen too many Zenith radios that had the ingraham tag on them... to be just some guy that bought a tag and nailed it to the cabinet.

John k9uwa

radiodoc3 · **Posted:** Oct Fri 03, 2008 6:22 pm

I think it's a "flea bay" term sellers use to try and get a better price. I've seen late stuff advertised with "Ingram" cabinets but nothing specific to prove this.

Peter · **Posted:** Oct Fri 03, 2008 11:22 pm

Another thought. Ingraham was in Bristol, CT. GE used Ingraham cabinets and was in Burlington, CT, only 10 miles away. Emerson was nearby in New York. Would it have made sense for Zenith to buy Ingraham cabinets and have them shipped to Chicago when they were already making cabinets in Chicago and Rockford? I don't know. I have many of the tabletop Zeniths of this era and have never seen one with an Ingraham tag.

Martin, it would be interesting if you could find that memo and put this one to rest.

Peter

Arran · **Posted:** Oct Sat 04, 2008 2:07 am

k9uwa wrote:

There are also some Emerson Ingraham Cabinets that are really rather plain jane as well as the more intricate inlays and styles.. Wife collects the Emersons... so there are a bunch of them here. I have shown her a few that she didn't want because they were plain jane.
Also I have seen too many Zenith radios that had the ingraham tag on them... to be just some guy that bought a tag and nailed it to the cabinet.

John k9uwa

There were also plenty of other cabinet makers and furniture companies besides Ingraham that could make ornate table radio cabinets. As someone mentioned American GE and Emerson contracting Ingraham would make more sense then Zenith, Detrola, or a Canadian manufacturer. Steins books sometimes attribute Ingraham as having made Stewart Warner and Truetone cabinets, neither of which would have made much sense since they were manufactured in Illinois or Michigan. Odd that I have never heard of anyone trying to attach the Ingraham cashe to FADA cabinets and they were from New York?
Best Regards
Arran

Zenith & Ingraham Cabinets: Myth or Real?

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