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ehunter
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Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Nov Sat 07, 2009 5:01 pm |
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I am stumped about an anti-skate issue for my Dual 1229.
All my documentation says the Anti-skate adjustment should be equal to the stylus force.
My D6827 78rpm stylus is recommended to run between 4-5grams and people say to add on 1gram for the brush.
Problem is the Dual anti-skate knob does not go higher than 3 grams.
I found some internet posts saying the best way to adjust is to look at the left and right output channels to verify the volume levels are the same. When they are that is the best setting to use.
Problem is 1) the stylus above is not a stereo stylus, and 2) even if it were stereo the setting force more or less should be in the area of 5 whereas the adjustment knob only goes up to three.
What do you 78l guys do in this situation? |
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Jim Dutridge
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 5063
Location: Toledo, Ohio
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| Posted: Nov Sat 07, 2009 6:58 pm |
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Only way I set the anti-skating is by letting the record play to a certain point, raise the arm then set it back down. If the song picks up in the same spot that you lifted the arm, its set.
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"AC volts and DC volts and little lamps and lities..." |
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Doug VanCleave
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 2012
Location: Berkley, Michigan
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| Posted: Nov Sat 07, 2009 8:17 pm |
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The turntable speed and the size of the stylus are responsible for the difference. The marked settings are only sort of, maybe, somewhat, kind of, roughly in the ballpark for 33-rpm.
The only accurate way to adjust anti-skating is with a clear disc with out any grooves on it. The anti-skate is adjusted so that the tone arm stays put where it's placed on the rotating disc and it doesn't skate in either direction. An audio obstacle course record has such an un-grooved surface in the center of the 12 inch disc.
If skating is set properly at 33-rpm the tone arm will skate toward the center of the record if the speed is changed to 45 and skate even faster at 78-rpm.
Most good turntables damp tone arm movement when the tone arm is manually cued so a good turntable like a Dual 1229 should always set down in the same groove that it was lifted out of regardless of the anti-skate setting.
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blacknwhite
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Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 106
Location: USA
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| Posted: Nov Sun 08, 2009 5:29 am |
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| Doug VanCleave wrote: | | The only accurate way to adjust anti-skating is with a clear disc with out any grooves on it. |
Agreed.
Since you're a 78 collector, there's a good chance you have one of those fairly common one-sided Victrola-brand records, with the blank flip side (not the logo-embossed flip side). If not, I'd think you could get one fairly cheap on eBay, if it's that important.
Anti-skate becomes more important as friction increases between needle and disc. If you had an extremely low-compliance cartridge, there would be more friction between needle and disc, thus "dragging" the tone arm "forward" more, which could result in forward-skipping, requiring more backward-tension (anti-skate). But on a Dual turntable, I wouldn't think you'd have such an extreme case of that problem.
I had this problem on a Califone-type record player, when I replaced the bullet cartridge with a cheaper foreign-made one, that was lower-compliance. It started skipping, and always in the forward direction. I had to "improvise" an anti-skate mechanism by taping a length of rubber band material to the rear of the tone arm, and pulling the rubber band slightly to the left, thus putting right-ward tension on the pickup end of the arm. (Eventually, I found one of the older, better-made bullet cartridges, & don't have that problem anymore.) |
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45sguy
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Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 410
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Nov Sun 08, 2009 1:33 pm |
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Garage-a-records.com still sells test (torture) discs. Check and see if they have any with the empty bands.
eric |
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Eric H
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 2557
Location: Redlands CA
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| Posted: Nov Sun 08, 2009 8:01 pm |
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I wonder if this is really going to be a problem with a 78 in any case?
With the tracking that heavy it's doubtful the record's going to skip or suffer any ill effects if the skating is slightly off.
How many old 78 players have Skating control?
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Doug VanCleave
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 2012
Location: Berkley, Michigan
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| Posted: Nov Sun 08, 2009 11:35 pm |
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| Eric H wrote: | | ...How many old 78 players have Skating control? |
Most of the old 78 players have so much friction in the tone arm bushings that they could use a little skating assist or positive bias.
Skipping is not the issue, distortion and record wear is. A Dual 1229 has virtually no friction in the tone arm gimbal. Modern magnetic cartridges with a 78 tip are just as compliant as their microgroove counterparts. They can track a 78 at 2 grams or less depending on the quality of the cartridge. The anti-skate will help stop the stylus from riding the inner groove, allow it to put equal pressure on both sides of the record groove and have less distortion.
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ehunter
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Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Nov Mon 09, 2009 8:29 pm |
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Garage-a-records did not have any of those groovless records/platters. I ended up buying a one sided record on ebay for 5 bucks. I had to trade mails to validate beforehand it was a smooth backside
My fear though is in trying to calibrate as you recommend earlier... just to learn that the skate force needed is more than the "3" adjustment on the skate dial. I guess we will see... |
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ehunter
Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 3:20 am |
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Does anybody know the difference between a Mono and Stereo stylus?
When I compare the two, I don’t see anything different that might separate two different channels.
Is the difference non-visual whereas internal to the hollow stylus shaft there is a way of transmitting the voltages of the R and L channels?
Or is it in the cartridge that responds to the vibrations of the left and right sides of the groves and the voltages are produced in there? |
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Eric H
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 2557
Location: Redlands CA
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Doug VanCleave
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 2012
Location: Berkley, Michigan
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| Posted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 11:06 am |
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The record has one channel cut on each side of the record groove. Depending on which direction the stylus is moved, the cantilever transmits the signal to the appropriate right or left element in the cartridge.
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Eric H
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Posts: 2557
Location: Redlands CA
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