Portable Gas Generators

[terry h]

Hi, I am considering having one in case of a lengthy power outage.
I see some smaller ones on sale for about $300.00 in the 3 to 4 thousand watt range. I don't need a big one for the basics.

I have no real experience with them. Lately, Champion brand have been available. Wen also. Anyone have first hand knowledge of those units? I wonder how the engines stand up? How do they start when it's really cold? Should I consider another brand?

Any insights welcome. Thank You, terry h

[TJM70]

Terry...we live in a small sort-of rural community...the sort of place that's among the first to go out (trees & overhead power lines) in bad weather and among the last to come back on when there are widespread outages.

After years of intermittent outages, I kept swearing I was going to buy a generator...so about 3 years ago, I finally did.

3500 / 4000 peak....generic from Pep boys. I've had to use it about a half dozen times and it has served very well.

It always starts on the first or second pull and I keep an hours used log on a tag...I only use stabilized gasoline in it and when I turn it off, I cut the fuel supply off and let it run the carb and fuel lines dry. I try to remember to start it up about every 3 months or so...speaking of this...it's about due again.

I have a detached garage, so I run it inside there (NOT attached to living space...running inside will kill you) and run two extensions to the house. One to the basement for the sump pump and wood furnace blower and the other for a basic light, convenience items in the living space. Our outages usually occur in cold weather, although we did have a two day outage in the summer...man was I happy to keep the fridge and freezer going then.

For the low cost and if you take care of it with common sense basic stuff, they are well worth the money.
_________________
Tom
"The 21st Century is a nice place to visit - but I sure wouldn't want to live there."

[John L]

From my own experience both running the house on a generator for weeks on end, and servicing same: most important thing I can say is.."Buy one with a name brand engine, ie B&S, Tecumseh, Kohler, Honda, Kawasaki, etc". We sold some at a seemingly good price, with no name engines. When they needed service, it was almost impossible to get parts, plus warranty coverage was at the whim of the importer, in this case Great Lakes Tools. I've noticed many of the low cost units available everywhere, even in the local supermarkets, have these no name engines made in China. Lowest cost is probably the most expensive way to buy a generator. I suppose it's like buying something at Harbor Freight..don't plan on using whatever it is more than a couple times.

Life is good..
Ride safe.
John L

[hnorman]

Buy one with a Honda engine. Will start when you need it to start and parts are available if needed. I have a 5KW Honda generator myself. It now is about 12 years old and still runs like a champ. I have had one repair in those 12 years and that was during warranty. Early failure mode just like in electronics.

[Mbird97x]

Mine from Harbor Freight has a Chineese engine that has a name. I just can't pronounce it!!! From the company that bought out McCulloch. Got it cheap and it works good. 5200W cont., 5700W surge.
_________________
Gary

[jkaetzjr]

I have an old Coleman 4kw I bought new. Has saved our bacon
(literally) a couple times when power was out a week with several short term usages. Has a Briggs & S 8 hp engine and its about as large as I can pull over now. Use Stabil or a sub. in the gas, crank it every 6 months or so. Mine is mounted on a homegrown caster base and lives in the basement, rolls out when used. Run carb dry when shutting down. I had problems with the float sticking open because of that but either the additive cured it or it cured itself.

[Curt Reed]

Remember the big Y2K scare a decade ago? Well, there was a small engine shop near here that was run by a guy who was a real nutcase. That guy made Chicken Little sound like a brave hero. You could not talk to that guy without the subject changing to something gloom like the power is going out for extended periods of time, or the lake will flood due to mechanical breakdowns at the dams and all such sort of crap.

Anyway, he was so paranoid that he bought an entire truckload of Generac generators for when the power grid was supposed to fail on 01-January-2000. I have no idea of how many he sold, but the following summer, he had over half a truckload left sitting in his warehouse. The manufacturers would not take them back, as they were working overtime to produce them due to the massive scare. So this guy was stuck with his unsold inventory, so he finally tried selling them at a local flea market at a loss.

So I bought one, a 5KVA unit with a 6.5KVA surge rating and it has a ten horse Briggs and Stratton engine on it. Has outlets for 120 and 240 volts. All in all, it is a nice generator that has wheels so it can be wheeled about.

We used to get frequent power outages here in town, but the utility company did a LOT of work on their distribution lines after being fined several million dollars for causing a wildfire that consummed many homes which was started when a rotten crossarm broke off a pole dropping one phase to the ground.

Anyway, since I bought that generator in the summer of 2000, I have not once had the occasion to use it. I paid less than half of what the list price was on it, as the guy just wanted to get rid of them once and for all. I made up a bunch of extension cords for it, fifty foot sections, as a hundred foot cord was way to heavy for me to pack. The wire in the extension cables is SOJ three wire cable of either 8 or 10 AWG. I can't remember now. But it is about an inch in diameter. I used Hubbel Twist-Loc connectors on it and in the end, I paid more for the extension cables than I did for the generator. I have over $400 tied up in those cables alone! And I paid $375 for the generator.

It is nice to be prepared, and luckily for me, the need for it all never materialized.
Curt
_________________
Curt, N7AH
(Connoisseur of the cold 807) CW forever!

[John L]

We lived on a generator for weeks in south Florida after Hurricane Irene. I have a Coleman 6kw generator I bought at Builder's Square in a going out of business sale, and stored it unused. When the power dropped, I lugged it out back and fired it up, extension cords running through every doorway. Ran that way for more than three weeks, and, since this is Florida, had all kinds of wildlife in the house for months. After the crisis was over, added a wheel set to the generator, and put it away. When we built our new home up here in Dunnellon, the first thing I did was install a transfer switch from Home Depot. That allows the generator to be safely used to power the stuff in the house via the in-the-walls wiring. Best thing I did.

Now we are awaiting the installation of a pv system..5 kw, that will do for us what the generator did in south Florida. We still have the generator, but may replace it with an automatic propane-fired Kohler generator. I'm getting to the point where I am unable to stress over getting the generator out and connected and maintained. I've already had two strokes, don't want another, eh? Added to the worries about the generator, I would have to haul the hurricane shutters out of storage and put them up. And Ida is out there roaming around even as I write this. Geez.

Life is good..
Ride safe.
John L

[Naddy69]

I've got a 5500 watt, 6200 watt peak unit with a 10 HP engine. Its on wheels, I fire it up once a month or so but I haven't needed it in nearly 3 years since I bought it.

I wouldn't worry about Ida. Its heading north thru the gulf, and its really too late in the season for it to do any real damage. Ocean water temperatures are way too low. I'm hoping it comes this way (Northeast Florida) and brings some rain - its been dry the last couple of months. But it looks like its going to hit the panhandle somewhere, maybe between Panama City and Apalachicola.

After that the models get a little weird, with some having it go southeast down thru Florida, and others having to go southwest back down to where it is now, near the Yucatan peninsula.

[RADIO DOGS]

i have thought about getting one to run our gas furnace if we lost power in the winter.the thing that always stops me is the extra cost of one that will provide the start up surge.keeping the fan running and at least one light in the house would work with a little camping size one but everything i read tells me i need some big to turn the fan over to get it running.that and we have never had the power off due to a storm in the winter in this part of Minneapolis.
it's also my impression that all i have to do is have a male to male plug to power up the house grid after i pull the mains .

[SamD]

[War Bird Radio]

I agree with SamD,
"I'm not an alarmist or otherwise interested in adhering to every possible code/law/mandate put forth... But I'm also not interested in legal entanglements... Tread carefully with this stuff."

Having to work with electricity every day in a mill, I can tell you it only takes one stupid mistake to do a lot of damage. Yes, there's legal entanglements and then there's putting someone's life at risk as well.

I have done the male to male extension cord backfeeding an outlet, risky buisness to say the least. It was in a pinch and I had power out for a week.

I originally bought a Honda EM2200X . This is what I used to backfeed the house with. I still have it. Recently bought a North Star 5500 with 11hp Honda motor. It came with a six circuit transfer panel and 25" of 10-4 SO cord with twist lock connectors to connect the generator to the transfer panel. This is the way to go, especially if you have no or little experience with electrical circuits and wiring.

My advice; go with Honda, shop around, buy used if you can, check Craig's List. Many Y2K generators are being sold with no hours on them, good buys. My 5500 was bought for Y2K and it was never used. It has the original oil in it and it's clear. The guy only started it a couple times a year and ran it for a few minutes to make sure it was in good working order. At $750 with transfer panel and cord it was a steal


John

[John L]

More about Honda generators..the small 2- and 3kw units are so quiet it's unbelievable. My bike chapter uses a 2kw unit to power a pa system at events, and 20 feet away it's unhearable. My B&S Coleman unit on the other hand, sounds like a lawn tractor running outside my bedroom window. We have a 7000btu ac that stores with the 6kw Coleman, and gets stuffed into the bedroom window so we can get come coolth and mebbe sleep.

A couple parameters for our proposed whole-house generator: 17-18kw, liquid cooled (quieter), operating speed 1800 rpm vice the usual 3600 rpm..again, quieter. Automatic transfer switch. The propane tank will be underground..they're ugly. Cost for the proposed Kohler generator is $4800 plus installation. As we get older, this seems like the way to go. We have above ground utilities here and the first thing to go in a storm will be the AC power.

Life is good..
Ride safe.
John L

[Mark D]

Hi Terry.
I have worked with portable generators for many years, but my opinions are still opinions.
Sam D. above gave some very good advise. If you don't want to spend the money to have an electrician hook it into your mains via a transfer switch panel, then you can also run a separate line into the house in a convenient location. From this line you can run the needed devices around the house via extension cords. For running refrigerators or freezers, I'm sure that you know that cord length should be minimal and wire size maximal.

That said:
What Curt Reed said about generators being around due to the old Y2K scare is also valid. I know all too well, as I manufacture parts for a portable generator company in my shop. Business was very brisk before 2000, and for several years after there was no business at all from the generator company. It has returned somewhat now.

In talking generators with theri purchasing director one day, I asked him what engines they find to be most reliable on their generators. For the small ones, under 10KW, they use either Honda or Briggs & Stratton. Surprisingly, he said they have had fewer complaints and warranty issues with B&S than with Honda.
Keep that in mind.

If you use propane for heating your house, or if you have a propane cylinder at your place that is large enough (more than a little 20# unit) I would advise getting a dual fuel unit. One that will operate on propane or gasoline. If you keep the gasoline out of the generator, that eliminates the concern about fuel going stale. You should still exercise it now and then, but you don't have to run all that gas through it and you won't need to exercise it as often. Run it on propane.

If you can, where you live, I would build a small generator shack away from the house and bury a line. This keeps the noise of the thing far away, and protects the unit from weather.

And the advice about buying name brand is good advise. Yet, some of these name brand generators are of very poor quality. Make sure that whatever you choose, that it weighs the most. That means they didn't chince on the windings. I know of at least one brand that cannot run for extended periods at its rated full load, not peak, for extended periods. The alternator heats up and burns up the windings. So buyer beware. Not all gensets are created equal.

One last thing - buy what you think is too big, because it still won't be big enough. Basically, figure out the total draw you figure you'll need to run at one time off the generator. Then double that, and figure the generator should handle that doubled figure at only 85% load for continuous running.
A 240 volt generator is a better bet.
Mark D.
_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem is electical.

[Ed in SoDak]

There's a few reasons for the precautions and specific methods you use when tying a generator into the house wiring.

You avoid male-to-male extensions because the exposed prongs can be live. It might be "safe" if you make your connections before starting the generator, but it's basically unwise to use the male-to-male cord when the transfer panel is a much safer method.

If you tie into the house wiring by simply turning off the main breaker and connecting the generator, you might place everything in the house on the generator. This would potentially overload anything but very large generators.

Another issue with this is if your generator is a 120v model, you have only energized half of the house circuits. The typical home is wired with 240v, which is divided into two 120 branch circuits. With the male-to-male connection to any nearby wall outlet, only one of these 120v branches is energized. The half of the house wiring that's connected to the other 120v branch will remain dead. However, all 240v appliance will also be receiving 120v. Without going into too much detail, it's easy to see that is not good.

So, if you're bound and determined to connect by the male-to-male method with a 120v generator, at the very least shut off all the 240v circuits and also any that would create too large a load for your generator's capacity.

A 240v generator will, of course, energize both 120v branches and all 240v circuits as well. Again, using a male-to-male cord to make the connection is verbooten for the same safety reasons as given above.

The transfer panel will correctly handle connecting to only the appliances you want energized and leave the rest disconnected.

If you don't have a transfer switch, running multiple extension cords is about the only way to avoid the risks and potential problems of trying to energize your house wiring. Obviously, this isn't always a very good answer either, as has been amply covered by other posts in this thread.

Another problem with tying in without a transfer switch is that if the main breaker is turned on while the generator is running, you will in effect be sending power "backwards" from your home out into the power lines. The transformer on the pole will act in reverse, stepping up your generator's voltage. This, as you might expect, is potentially very risky to any line workers and your neighbors.

Plus, if you're running with the main disconnected, you may not discover when power had been restored.

So that's another reason for using the transfer switch, as it is safer and more effective in handling the switchover from generator to the powerlines and back.

Picking a suitable generator size can be difficult. Most will specify operating capacity and surge capacity. Large motors do indeed require a higher start-up current. You probably need to size for this as well as whatever other things are turned on at the same time as the motor is starting up.

OTOH, as you increase generator size, things like fuel consumption also increase. Some generators may "idle back" under light loads, while others are basically running full bore. Running one around the clock will take a lot of gas. Smaller generators often have small tanks, so you may find yourself doing a lot of tending to the motor's needs. So, there's a lot of personal decisions to make regarding convenience versus cost.

We don't have a generator at present, but after the last long outage, I'm getting more tempted. For my wife and I to "get by" in a power failure and still be able to work at our job, we'd need a large 240v model. It would need to be large enough to run our well pump and air compressor and possibly a 240v heater and maybe the cookstove as well. Not all at once, though! I'd have to make quite an investment in controls or be prepared to do a lot of cord swapping, depending on what was needed most at the moment.

-Ed

[Michele]

I bought a 5KW Coleman generator with a Briggs engine back when we had the big ice storm of 91. It ran every day for two weeks and powered the sump pump, gas furnace, refrigerator, microwave, TV, and a few lights. We were the only people left in the neighborhood. I haven't needed it since then, but I still start it up twice a year to exercise it and I wouldn't be without it.

[Mbird97x]

I run mine into the panel manually by first running 240V thru a breaker so I can be sure the 4-prong plug to the genset isn't "live" when disconnected. I have all un-needed breakers off( high draw stuff) and the main off so as not to back feed. I power the house totally just as if nothing happened. Just have to swap some breakers if I want to heat the water or run the well pump. Ran it during T.S. Fay last year for 10 hrs. (5 gallons gas) and it was mentally relaxing knowing I could go room-to-room as normal turning on lights, etc.
_________________
Gary

[terry h]

Hi Guys, I do appreciate the comments. I am aware of the nuances mentioned. I'm not a fan of cords with dual male plugs for instance.

My Needs; I have 2 Siegler oil stoves that need 1.5 amp max. each.
They are gravity feed, so just the blowers need current. I can get by with one if needed. I have rural water so don't need a water pump.
One small freezer and Maytag fridge would need periodic power. Everything else is not essential, unless I need to keep water pipes and the meter thawed.

I should note that our power is rarely out for more than an hour or two, and is no big deal. BUT severe weather, be it ice, or blizzard, with below 0 temps for many days is serious stuff here. Survival mode.

The Plan; Put a small to moderate sized gen. in the back of the tool van. Pipe the exhaust out. Use van's second tank to replenish gen. tank via electric fuel pump. In bad weather, drive in close to the house and run cord to a previously installed (through the wall) inlet/outlet. I'll spare you the nuances.

I really am wondering about the cheap gens.. I can't lift like I used to. Champion and Wen...I could buy one of each for redundancy, and perhaps lift them. I would have use for both in summer. They must be China manufacture at the price. I had hoped one of you guys owned either brand. Like they say; "Ask The Man That Broke One."

Genuine Thanks Guys! terry h here

BTW, Years ago I bought a defunct Winco gen with a blown Briggs engine. Did autopsy. Galled rod and ruined shaft. Not many hours on it. I cut the engine off with the idea of powering gen by other means. Not a B&S fan.

[Ted]

We have one of the Honda eUi series - "2000". Rated for 1600 watts continuous. These are pricey but you gets what ya pays for, too. These are nice in that they are very quiet, it just purrs and they sip the fuel. These have dual inversion (and an RF stage!! wait. never mind..) It may be a better buy for suburbia than living out in the country where noise issues aren't a factor.

Engine RPM is automatically throttled back under low load conditions, and spooled up when required. This keeps the noise and fuel consumption down even more. They are light enough to carry short distances. They won't run high current devices but provide juice to keep the lights on, refrigerator-freezer, computers, phones, etc.

Popular with RVers and campers, construction work, etc. Honda sells an adapter harness so two units can be quickly paralleled together for higher current needs. Some folks might find two separate 2000 units more versatile than a single 5k, something to think about.

One caveat: the unit is somewhat of a pain to change the oil cleanly, other than that they seem top drawer. There are also propane conversion kits available which might be just the ticket. For longer term storage use "Coleman fuel", a low octane naptha distillate is much less likely to gum or go stale. It's better to put the unit through its paces a few times a year and let it run to normal operating temperature.