Forums :: Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives
Support This Site: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently Aug Tue 04, 2020 6:28 pm


All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Tue 14, 2020 9:59 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Tue 07, 2020 1:41 am
Posts: 1966
Location: Fenton, MI 48430
Chas wrote:
audioengr wrote:
I am looking at a Zenith 805 cathedral. Is this a good reliable radio to get if it's my only antique radio? What would the value be on a good working one?
I want it to be portable and have good sound quality so a room full of people can hear it well. It's not the prettiest cathedral, but I want it to perform well. I am also looking at a Crosley 168, maybe a Philco or Atwater Kent. If there are even better options, please share. I notice that Philco's get snapped-up and Atwater Kent is spendy.
What would be "wrong" with a replica from the 80's?

Consider, Cheap, some look very authentic if models with a cassette port are avoided.

One could creatively remove the cassette mechanism and install a USB or blue tooth, that is easily powered by the low voltage transistor chassis. It may be possible to "blue" to your music selections on an iphone to the replica.

Models with a closed back have very good tone.

They are light weight, will play "forever", no tube nuisance.

Drop it and it smashes maybe out 50$, pull any modifications and get another one.

Older folks will still get a kick out of the music coming from a wooden box.

If you opted for a Talking House setup. Even pocket radios become music boxes. Thing is that more than one radio can be tuned to the same Talking House, including that pocket transistor, so a walloping, heavy table radio with push-pull output need not be your weighty companion...

Nostalgia on a budget...

He, he, these are approaching the 25 year collectible antique...

YMMV

Chas

I had a 1929 Atwater Kent 60 console that was dead. It did have a fairly nice cabinet. I put an AM-FM radio in it and it did look like a factory stock radio due to a very thin antique wood I used on the new radio face. I sold it for $150 where as the original radio would be lucky to bring $50.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Tue 14, 2020 10:15 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Mon 18, 2010 2:13 am
Posts: 20772
Location: Dayton Ohio
The General Electric 7-4100J cathedral is the only replica radio I would recommend.

It is Made by General Electric and is a replica of a GE J-100 in style.
Very nice performer too!

-Steve

_________________
Radio Interests
-Zenith
-Sparton
-Pre-War FM
Consoles and floor models, the bigger, the better!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Tue 14, 2020 10:34 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Sun 12, 2020 3:39 am
Posts: 89
Location: Great Northwest
Chas wrote:
audioengr wrote:
I am looking at a Zenith 805 cathedral. Is this a good reliable radio to get if it's my only antique radio? What would the value be on a good working one?
I want it to be portable and have good sound quality so a room full of people can hear it well. It's not the prettiest cathedral, but I want it to perform well. I am also looking at a Crosley 168, maybe a Philco or Atwater Kent. If there are even better options, please share. I notice that Philco's get snapped-up and Atwater Kent is spendy.
What would be "wrong" with a replica from the 80's?

Consider, Cheap, some look very authentic if models with a cassette port are avoided.

One could creatively remove the cassette mechanism and install a USB or blue tooth, that is easily powered by the low voltage transistor chassis. It may be possible to "blue" to your music selections on an iphone to the replica.

Models with a closed back have very good tone.

They are light weight, will play "forever", no tube nuisance.

Drop it and it smashes maybe out 50$, pull any modifications and get another one.

Older folks will still get a kick out of the music coming from a wooden box.

If you opted for a Talking House setup. Even pocket radios become music boxes. Thing is that more than one radio can be tuned to the same Talking House, including that pocket transistor, so a walloping, heavy table radio with push-pull output need not be your weighty companion...

Nostalgia on a budget...

He, he, these are approaching the 25 year collectible antique...

YMMV

Chas


I'm not afraid of tubes. I have modded some tube gear including my own monoblock amplifiers. There is nothing like the tube sound. I also want the real McCoy. If I take it to a school history class and play news from WWII, I want to be able to say that this radio is authentic 1931. Just like I play 78's from the 30's and 40's on my Victor II Gramophone for others, particularly at Christmas time. A lot of this is about the novelty of the real thing and how good it really was. Most people are shocked at how good the Gramophone sounds.

As for the Talking House, I have my own design in the works, with 3 transmitters/frequencies, each having continuous broadcasts of different content, like music, famous historical new broadcasts and variety shows. Each of these will be on it's own thumb-drive. This way I can tune different stations with different content making it appear like I have gone back in time. Great for demonstrating to my friends and relatives. I think they will initially be shocked until they realize what's going on.

_________________
EE with 44 years digital design experience, not much tubes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 3:20 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Sat 24, 2011 9:17 pm
Posts: 6298
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
audioengr wrote:
westcoastjohn wrote:
I'm no expert when it comes to the 1920's, but usually a 25 Hz transformer will works fine on 60 and run cooler.


Good to know. I will research this a bit. It is rated at 110VAC and the 60Hz one is rated at 110-120VAC, so it may be outputting higher voltage when the AC voltage is at 122 like it is here.

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/23999/effects-of-changing-the-frequency-of-a-transformer

"designed to run on 60 Hz it will get hot and unhappy on 50Hz even on no load."

"For small changes in frequency - say a 60 Hz transformer run on 50 Hz,


https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2019/09/can-we-operate-60hz-transformer-on-50hz.html

Sounds like I need the 60Hz transformer.
Look at those again and give your head a slap. :lol:
Your 25 Hz transformer is just coasting at 60 Hz. Using a 60 at 50 is trouble.

Power generated in Niagara Falls was 25 Hz, so many radios had 25/60 rated transformers. They are huge things. I have a couple of table radios that weigh 40 lbs because of this.

You can drop line voltage with a resistor, creating heat, or a capacitor, better, or a bucking transformer.
A 10 volt 1 amp transformer in series with the line will either add to or subtract from the line voltage.

_________________
Watch the doughnut, not the hole.
Burl Ives, RIP, oldtimer.
[:l>)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 4:23 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr Sun 01, 2012 9:55 pm
Posts: 11570
Location: Seattle, WA
Right. A power transformer designed for a lower frequency (25 or 50 Hz) will work fine at a higher frequency (60 Hz). The opposite, a PT designed for a higher frequency (60 Hz) is trouble at lower frequencies.

_________________
Rodney -- KG7EPW
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with a chainsaw.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 4:24 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Sun 12, 2020 3:39 am
Posts: 89
Location: Great Northwest
westcoastjohn wrote:
audioengr wrote:
westcoastjohn wrote:
I'm no expert when it comes to the 1920's, but usually a 25 Hz transformer will works fine on 60 and run cooler.


Good to know. I will research this a bit. It is rated at 110VAC and the 60Hz one is rated at 110-120VAC, so it may be outputting higher voltage when the AC voltage is at 122 like it is here.

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/23999/effects-of-changing-the-frequency-of-a-transformer

"designed to run on 60 Hz it will get hot and unhappy on 50Hz even on no load."

"For small changes in frequency - say a 60 Hz transformer run on 50 Hz,


https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2019/09/can-we-operate-60hz-transformer-on-50hz.html

Sounds like I need the 60Hz transformer.
Look at those again and give your head a slap. :lol:
Your 25 Hz transformer is just coasting at 60 Hz. Using a 60 at 50 is trouble.

Power generated in Niagara Falls was 25 Hz, so many radios had 25/60 rated transformers. They are huge things. I have a couple of table radios that weigh 40 lbs because of this.


Interesting. I suppose areas near the falls were originally 25Hz.

[/quote]

_________________
EE with 44 years digital design experience, not much tubes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 5:57 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 14446
Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
audioengr wrote:
I'm not afraid of tubes. I have modded some tube gear including my own monoblock amplifiers. There is nothing like the tube sound. I also want the real McCoy. If I take it to a school history class and play news from WWII, I want to be able to say that this radio is authentic 1931. Just like I play 78's from the 30's and 40's on my Victor II Gramophone for others, particularly at Christmas time. A lot of this is about the novelty of the real thing and how good it really was. Most people are shocked at how good the Gramophone sounds.

As for the Talking House, I have my own design in the works, with 3 transmitters/frequencies, each having continuous broadcasts of different content, like music, famous historical new broadcasts and variety shows. Each of these will be on it's own thumb-drive. This way I can tune different stations with different content making it appear like I have gone back in time. Great for demonstrating to my friends and relatives. I think they will initially be shocked until they realize what's going on.


Good for you, I have had every intention of doing the same thing with a Talking House and a SS-Tran. The intent is to stream from either Music Choice (TV audio) or online...

Just have not had the time for such...

Some 50 YA I put some of the collection on display at a local museum, they drew little interest, I guess they were too new :roll:

Better chassis will sound good but the trade off is the weight... Takes at least a 6" speaker but an 8 "or a 10" in a table top chassis is ideal.

IMHO may not have to hard wire the antenna to the radio...

GL

Chas

_________________
List' & I will Enchant Thine Ear


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 5:51 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Sun 12, 2020 3:39 am
Posts: 89
Location: Great Northwest
The difference from Talking House is I don't intend to broadcast this into the air. It will be strictly F-connector output direct to the radio with the appropriate balun for impedance matching. I don't want any emissions actually. If I need to drive more radios, I will just add more F-connector outputs.

I would need a stack of 3 Talking House boxes to do this, plus a combiner/driver to drive the coax and three laptops that I have to program and monitor to drive the three different content feeds. A LOT of stuff compared to the one box that I can plug-in and it just works.

_________________
EE with 44 years digital design experience, not much tubes.


Last edited by audioengr on Jan Wed 15, 2020 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 6:02 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Mon 18, 2010 2:13 am
Posts: 20772
Location: Dayton Ohio
If you are going a wired route, why not just run audio?

Converting to AM RF will have losses in quality and the reason to do so is to transmit wirelessly.

-Steve

_________________
Radio Interests
-Zenith
-Sparton
-Pre-War FM
Consoles and floor models, the bigger, the better!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 6:24 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul Tue 15, 2008 6:13 pm
Posts: 7978
Location: Gretna, Nebraska
audioengr wrote:
westcoastjohn wrote:
I'm no expert when it comes to the 1920's, but usually a 25 Hz transformer will works fine on 60 and run cooler.


Good to know. I will research this a bit. It is rated at 110VAC and the 60Hz one is rated at 110-120VAC, so it may be outputting higher voltage when the AC voltage is at 122 like it is here.

Here is the first citing:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/23999/effects-of-changing-the-frequency-of-a-transformer

"If you eg operate a transformer properly designed to run on 60 Hz it will get hot and unhappy on 50Hz even on no load."

"For small changes in frequency - say a 60 Hz transformer run on 50 Hz,
kVA up slightly,
magnetizing current up by MORE than 60/50,
inductance down somewhat,
induced voltage about the same,
losses much higher.
Death threatens."

analysis:

https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2019/09/can-we-operate-60hz-transformer-on-50hz.html

Sounds like I need the 60Hz transformer.


No problem operating a 25 hz transformer on modern 60 hz line voltage.
However you would not want to operate a 60 hz transformer on 25 hz line voltage. (assuming you could find a place still operating on 25 hz).

Old radio transformers will sometimes operate run hotter and overheat on today's higher line voltages (120 VAC vs 110 VAC. After complete restoration, its a good idea to monitor the transformer temperature after running the radio a while on the line voltage in your area.

_________________
http://www.vintagerestorationservices.com
Paul
...... how hard can it be?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 6:53 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Sun 12, 2020 3:39 am
Posts: 89
Location: Great Northwest
azenithnut wrote:
If you are going a wired route, why not just run audio?

Converting to AM RF will have losses in quality and the reason to do so is to transmit wirelessly.

-Steve


It isn't realistic. If I ask a friend to tune a station, this will not work. I want it to appear like he is transported back in time. The twilight zone...

_________________
EE with 44 years digital design experience, not much tubes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 6:56 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Sun 12, 2020 3:39 am
Posts: 89
Location: Great Northwest
processhead wrote:
audioengr wrote:
westcoastjohn wrote:
I'm no expert when it comes to the 1920's, but usually a 25 Hz transformer will works fine on 60 and run cooler.


Good to know. I will research this a bit. It is rated at 110VAC and the 60Hz one is rated at 110-120VAC, so it may be outputting higher voltage when the AC voltage is at 122 like it is here.

Here is the first citing:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/23999/effects-of-changing-the-frequency-of-a-transformer

"If you eg operate a transformer properly designed to run on 60 Hz it will get hot and unhappy on 50Hz even on no load."

"For small changes in frequency - say a 60 Hz transformer run on 50 Hz,
kVA up slightly,
magnetizing current up by MORE than 60/50,
inductance down somewhat,
induced voltage about the same,
losses much higher.
Death threatens."

analysis:

https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2019/09/can-we-operate-60hz-transformer-on-50hz.html

Sounds like I need the 60Hz transformer.


No problem operating a 25 hz transformer on modern 60 hz line voltage.
However you would not want to operate a 60 hz transformer on 25 hz line voltage. (assuming you could find a place still operating on 25 hz).

Old radio transformers will sometimes operate run hotter and overheat on today's higher line voltages (120 VAC vs 110 VAC. After complete restoration, its a good idea to monitor the transformer temperature after running the radio a while on the line voltage in your area.


Good advice. I will try using the 25Hz transformer first and look at all of the voltages. If they are on the low-side or the audio output power is not up to snuff, I will change to the 60Hz transformer.

I will likely get both radios working and then compare them. I'll probably mod both of them and sell one in the cabinet that needs refinishing and keep the other.

_________________
EE with 44 years digital design experience, not much tubes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 7:22 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Mon 18, 2010 2:13 am
Posts: 20772
Location: Dayton Ohio
Oh! So you will have multiple carriers?

Yeeah I see where you are going now. :D

-Steve

_________________
Radio Interests
-Zenith
-Sparton
-Pre-War FM
Consoles and floor models, the bigger, the better!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 7:28 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 14446
Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
audioengr wrote:
azenithnut wrote:
If you are going a wired route, why not just run audio?

Converting to AM RF will have losses in quality and the reason to do so is to transmit wirelessly.

-Steve


It isn't realistic. If I ask a friend to tune a station, this will not work. I want it to appear like he is transported back in time. The twilight zone...
Unless this is done in a Faraday cage in-between stations will be modern talk radio and usual QRN.
Oh, full transport will require more senses. I suppose, if vintage push button radios were used, the dial button defeated. The only option are stations preset on the buttons.

The wafting of a cheap cigar would do it... Background noises of early auto horns and the clopping of the horse... The bellows of a rag & bone man, milk truck brakes, the chugging of a Mack chain drive coal truck... Ad the stench of a poorly vented Kero heater too... Oh, where I lived, the spring time smell of fresh cow flop on the garden and the sweet smell of fresh hay in late May...

Period dress, of course...

A grand experiment though...

All that is gone, last horse went up down the street some 15 ya. Moos and crowing rooster about the same time.

Chas

_________________
List' & I will Enchant Thine Ear


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 8:09 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Sun 12, 2020 3:39 am
Posts: 89
Location: Great Northwest
azenithnut wrote:
Oh! So you will have multiple carriers?

Yeeah I see where you are going now. :D

-Steve


Yes, multiple carriers over coax, all inside Farady-cage metal box.

_________________
EE with 44 years digital design experience, not much tubes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 8:11 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Sun 12, 2020 3:39 am
Posts: 89
Location: Great Northwest
Chas wrote:
audioengr wrote:
azenithnut wrote:
If you are going a wired route, why not just run audio?

Converting to AM RF will have losses in quality and the reason to do so is to transmit wirelessly.

-Steve


It isn't realistic. If I ask a friend to tune a station, this will not work. I want it to appear like he is transported back in time. The twilight zone...
Unless this is done in a Faraday cage in-between stations will be modern talk radio and usual QRN.
Oh, full transport will require more senses. I suppose, if vintage push button radios were used, the dial button defeated. The only option are stations preset on the buttons.

The wafting of a cheap cigar would do it... Background noises of early auto horns and the clopping of the horse... The bellows of a rag & bone man, milk truck brakes, the chugging of a Mack chain drive coal truck... Ad the stench of a poorly vented Kero heater too... Oh, where I lived, the spring time smell of fresh cow flop on the garden and the sweet smell of fresh hay in late May...

Period dress, of course...

A grand experiment though...

All that is gone, last horse went up down the street some 15 ya. Moos and crowing rooster about the same time.

Chas


I am considering period dress, even for my Gramophone exhibitions. Spats, straw hat etc..

_________________
EE with 44 years digital design experience, not much tubes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Wed 15, 2020 8:15 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Sun 12, 2020 3:39 am
Posts: 89
Location: Great Northwest
Quote:
Unless this is done in a Faraday cage in-between stations will be modern talk radio and usual QRN.
Oh, full transport will require more senses. I suppose, if vintage push button radios were used, the dial button defeated. The only option are stations preset on the buttons.

The wafting of a cheap cigar would do it... Background noises of early auto horns and the clopping of the horse... The bellows of a rag & bone man, milk truck brakes, the chugging of a Mack chain drive coal truck... Ad the stench of a poorly vented Kero heater too... Oh, where I lived, the spring time smell of fresh cow flop on the garden and the sweet smell of fresh hay in late May...

Period dress, of course...

A grand experiment though...

All that is gone, last horse went up down the street some 15 ya. Moos and crowing rooster about the same time.

Chas


I could tune it to designated frequencies so that pushbuttons would work. I don't have any and don't expect to. However, If I build more than one, I may donate to radio museums to use. I think it would improve the experience greatly.

_________________
EE with 44 years digital design experience, not much tubes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Thu 16, 2020 12:37 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun Sun 03, 2012 12:40 am
Posts: 1801
Location: Cromwell, Connecticut
I saw this nice RCA radio on the bay. It has push buttons for pre sets and is a nice looking set.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F324019224352

I didn’t think you were looking for a 50’s German table set, too new.

_________________
Tony

People may not remember how fast you did a job, but they will remember how well you did it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need expert help selecting my only radio
PostPosted: Jan Thu 16, 2020 2:23 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Mon 29, 2018 5:58 pm
Posts: 250
Location: Nipomo, CA 93444
I used one computer, but 3 separate USB sound cards and 3 separate instances of VLC Media Player. It worked great!

_________________
-Jim
W6JCR


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 39 posts ]  Moderator: sofaslug Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: EDLIND1017, Majestic-12 [Bot], Spivey and 40 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  


































-->


Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB