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PostPosted: Jan Fri 15, 2010 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 572
Location: AUSTRALIA
Hi Rick,
Do you think the 400 series IFs were actually all different? or would it just have been hype.
If they were different, what do you think the differences would be with each succeding IF stage.
Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Sat 16, 2010 3:40 am 
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Quote:
Do you think the 400 series IFs were actually all different? or would it just have been hype.
If they were different, what do you think the differences would be with each succeding IF stage.

No, no, golfguru. I believe, as Duane discovered, the 400s were peaked at 410-ish, as he noted, it was a "one-spot". Thus, the frequency would be that high.

All IFs were numbered sequencialy 461 thru 469, I believe, so the builder would place them as the layout showed. But I doubt they were different. Ads said they were matched (peak).

Let's get Duane in this conversation....Duane...Come in...Earth to Duane.....Hello....Hello....

Where is he when ya need'em????


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Never saw a 1920s Superhet I could live without!

See lots of 1920s Superhets at http://www.superhets.info/page5.html


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PostPosted: Jan Sun 17, 2010 12:44 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 848
Location: Utah 84065
Sorry for chimming in late; I've been traveling.

I think Rick is right, the various 400 series IF transformers were all alike. The only thing different is the identifying label. The transformers have similar relative peak frequencies and bandwidths, and the DC resistances of their coils are about the same. Here's the complete data that I have measured:

461 H.F. Rp=10.2 ohms, Rs=6.2 ohms, Fr=410.5 KC, BW=22.4 KC
465 H.F. Rp=10.2 ohms, Rs=6.1 ohms, Fr=396.9 KC, BW=20.7 KC
467 H.F. Rp=10.0 ohms, Rs=6.2 ohms, Fr=422.0 KC, BW=23.3 KC

Values of Fr and BW may be different in the actual circuit. Keep in mind that I used 01A tubes for my Fr and BW measurements; it looks like the Hot Spot Fourteen was designed for 199s in the IF amp.

I'm glad to have these few transformers because I don't think I would ever find, or be able to afford, a complete Hot Spot Fourteen!

Duane


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Sun 17, 2010 3:41 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: AUSTRALIA
Hotspot 14 photos here. (Plus early battery "Tecla" twins from M.Bancroft.)
http://www.antiqueradio.com/Apr09_AWA_Conference.pdf
Note: Hotspot has (erroneously?) all 199's installed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Sun 17, 2010 4:28 am 
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.
Curious. The set shown has "Dry Cell" tubes throughout.

.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Sun 17, 2010 6:47 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Utah 84065
Golfguru, thanks for the link to the Hot Spot Fourteen photos. I notice that it recently sold for $500. Very reasonable price in my opinion.

Duane


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Tue 19, 2010 4:54 pm 
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Joined: May Thu 07, 2009 10:57 pm
Posts: 143
All,

Here's a link to another nice mid-20s superhet that should be in this thread...

http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/vie ... p?t=127399

Rick

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Never saw a 1920s Superhet I could live without!

See lots of 1920s Superhets at http://www.superhets.info/page5.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Tue 19, 2010 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Sep Fri 22, 2006 6:29 pm
Posts: 1116
Location: powell wyoming
i know it really does not compare to most of the supers listed here, but i like it ok
my little erla monodic s-51
Image
Image
Image

it may be that with the few clues avalible about the s-51 that it may have simply been stuffed in a later cabinet, i honestly have no idea, but thanks to those that helped i managed to get the wiring figured out and hand drew a schematic
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtop ... highlight=
with the 5 O1A,s and the one 71A for output it plays great with my old utah speaker :D

buck


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Wed 03, 2010 12:01 am 
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Posts: 143
Unfortunately, I don't believe this posting will bring this topic back alive, but thought you all might be interested in a bit of Lacault "Phenix" (sic) history.

Over the past weekend, a radio was sold on eBad that was Lacault's first offering. The Model L-1 was not the first. I like to call his first the "Model L-0" (zero).
It was a six tube model as shown below. A separate two stage audio amp could be built to make an 8 tube super.

Originally, magazine articles showed how to wind the coils and IF amp necessary to build the L-0, but Phenix soon offered a superhet kit so no winding was necessary.
The IF transformer had a "tuna can" appearance with an obvious split down the middle where the two halves were fit together. Very soon though, the Bakelite cans were made
with the split on one side. These early IFs were black and not the brown that came during the run of the Model L-1 eight tube super. The brown tuna cans
are more often found by collectors.

The set below has had obvious "rebuilding" and a bit of creative expression was taken in adding five additional filament controls to the front panel,
counting the one between the tuning dials. But, the set should be easily taken back to Lacault's late 1923 design. This receiver was detailed in Lacault's
booklet on how to build the L-1.

The major modifications were different tuning caps, a pickup coil in the antenna coil, and a grid-leak shown just in front
of the antenna coil. Looking at the scheme, you'll note there was no such arrangement for a first detector. Both were unnecessary with Lacault's
"Metropolitan" or modulator design, as he called it. The plate of the first tube goes evidentually to the plate of the oscillator tube with no B+ directly applied to it.
But, more typically, it was attached to the oscillator grid as shown in the last schematic from Lacault's L-1 construction booklet.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Keep this topic going! I know you have more 1920s superhets to show us....!

Rick

_________________
Never saw a 1920s Superhet I could live without!

See lots of 1920s Superhets at http://www.superhets.info/page5.html


Last edited by Rick A on Feb Wed 03, 2010 2:07 am, edited 25 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Wed 03, 2010 12:12 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 848
Location: Utah 84065
Nice looking superhet Rick! You're lucky I don't have any more room ;-)

Duane


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Wed 03, 2010 12:19 am 
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I have to sleep with them now! Talkin' 'bout NO ROOM!! :oops:

Rick

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Never saw a 1920s Superhet I could live without!

See lots of 1920s Superhets at http://www.superhets.info/page5.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Wed 03, 2010 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 848
Location: Utah 84065
Hi Rick,

I noticed the grid leak, the coil inside the antenna coupler, and the changed tuning caps, but I didn't put it all together. Is the radio a standard superhet now (no longer an Ultradyne circuit)? What is the date of the 100 Radio Hookups schematic? I notice it has the older IFs shown on it. The other schematic has the Ultraformer Type A and Type B transformers (with associated tuning capacitors).

I thought the Fenway was kind of interesting too. I didn't know they made them with Remler IFs, but I suppose they could have used whatever transformers they wanted to use. I would have been more interested in it if the two shields were not missing.

Nice score on the Sangamo kit also. I've already got a Pressley, so I didn't bid on the kit. The kit is probably a rare thing though.

I'll try and keep the thread going. I've got my web site finished now (at least a first version with 32 pages). Just having problems uploading it to my server. Maybe tonight?

Duane


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Wed 03, 2010 5:16 pm 
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Joined: May Thu 07, 2009 10:57 pm
Posts: 143
Where to start, Duane? So much to answer.

The first schematic comes from "100 Hookups" by W.F. Webb, 3rd Edition, Dec 1924. Sometimes authors changed labels on parts on schematics to be vague on purpose.
I think this is the case. It's a very unusual scheme that I'd never seen before. I don't like it.

Usually, Lacault promoted the second diagram with the plate going to the grid. I noticed the secondary of "RF1" doesn't have the cap across the windings
on the first schematic. The Ultraformer "A" was the filter placed in front of the IF chain. The "B"s didn't have the caps as you noted, Duane, and one can see
from the detail in that second schematic.

Whoever owned the radio above thought the Modulation Method wasn't good enough and made the set into a standard super, as you said.

Unfortunately, a builder could use any IF transformer as long as the set was designed for an intermediate frequency which was at least "close" to that of the transformers.
I say unfortunately because it makes it harder to identify it and get associated information.

With that thought, Fenway specifically recommended only the General Radio and the Silver-Marshall IFs. Never seen Remlers in one. I didn't see that one,
but would like to. I only know of two, but sure there must be others. Got a link to it I can use??

Thanks about the Sangamo kit. I suppose I was bidding against you, Duane?? Hate that. I don't want to be a glutton....much.

Let us know as soon as your site is up!!!

Rick

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Never saw a 1920s Superhet I could live without!

See lots of 1920s Superhets at http://www.superhets.info/page5.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Wed 03, 2010 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 848
Location: Utah 84065
Hi Rick,

I don't know what you're talking about, or else I'm missing something. Both of the schematics of the Ultradyne L-0 look the same to me. The plates of both modulator tubes connect to the grid of the oscillator (through the primary of the first IF transformer). About the only difference I see in either schematic is the way the oscillator tuning capacitor is wired. I see that the filament of the oscillator tube is connected directly across the A battery in both schematics. I wonder if this is an error?

Here is a link to the Fenway. At least that's what I thought it was. Maybe it's not a Fenway?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

I am the bidder with 93 feedbacks, and I thought you were the bidder with 927 feedbacks?

I did not bid on the Sangamo kit.

Duane


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Thu 04, 2010 2:52 am 
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Joined: May Thu 07, 2009 10:57 pm
Posts: 143
Okay...Let's see how much more I can be wrong! Duane has been placed on the planet just to keep me in line! :oops:

The little electrons were running thru that first schematic so fast for so long that when I asked them if they'd gotten to the grid yet, they just panted and puffed.
I ASSumed they hadn't. So, Duane is right! As usual. I'm so jealous! :evil:

The first schematic has the value of the oscillator variable cap wrong. Dah. :roll:

Now, to say that 3-dial on eBad isn't an Everyman's Nine would likely have me apologizing again. So, I'll show a couple of other pix. Without tracing the circuit, I'd be wrong....
HOWEVER, I don't believe it is.

I did see it up there, but I can't restore anything that far gone. Believe me, Duane can! I really liked it. Very fancy receiver in 1928.

BTW, not that the builder cared, but Fenway said in his articles that if one built his set just as he described...step by step...he'd troubleshoot the radio on his time for free
if it was shipped to him. The builder of the set in question is far from accurate.

Anyone else have an opinion about these radios?

Rick

Image

Image

_________________
Never saw a 1920s Superhet I could live without!

See lots of 1920s Superhets at http://www.superhets.info/page5.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Thu 04, 2010 3:16 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 848
Location: Utah 84065
I finally got my web site transfered to the server. Here's the link for it:

www.duanesradios.info

I hope you guys enjoy it. It has taken me a long time to do this. Six years of collecting superhets, six years of measuring IF transformer bandpass, and three months putting the data into my web site.

Duane


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Thu 04, 2010 3:25 am 
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Posts: 2342
Location: Bloomington, MN, 55425
Wow, nice job Duane. I look therefore I slobber. Must limit viewing to a few sets per visit
or I may expire from envy overload.


-Phil


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Thu 04, 2010 6:16 am 
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Joined: May Thu 07, 2009 10:57 pm
Posts: 143
Duane! Nice web site!!

Lots of data on IFs that took you a bunch of time. We all can sure use your efforts.

But, you been holdin' out! New superhets you haven't shown us!

Great work, fella.... 8)

Rick

<PS> Got any fer sale?? :roll:

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Never saw a 1920s Superhet I could live without!

See lots of 1920s Superhets at http://www.superhets.info/page5.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Thu 04, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1974
Location: Hinsdale, IL, USA
Duane,

Great job,

What a wonderful resource. Thank you very much for doing this.

Now I need time to peruse the entire site.

_________________
Chuck D. KB9UMF


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Thu 04, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1974
Location: Hinsdale, IL, USA
Duane,

Great job,

What a wonderful resource. Thank you very much for doing this.

Now I need time to peruse the entire site.

_________________
Chuck D. KB9UMF


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