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 Post subject: Detrola info requested... (more pix)
PostPosted: Aug Thu 27, 2009 3:42 am 
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Location: La Vergne, TN
Here's a pic of the first console I ever purchased, roughly 22 years ago. It's a Detrola 10-zm-3 I believe. The grille cloth is something I dug up at a fabric store at the time, and I'd like to finally replace with the original (or something close). Anyone out there know what the grille cloth for this set would have looked like? Also, any other information on this radio? Have yet to see it in books or online.

This may be also related to cabinet restoration forum, if so, my apologies.

Image

Thanks,
KT


Last edited by radioaddict on Aug Fri 28, 2009 3:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Thu 27, 2009 4:05 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI USA
Could be a tough one to find, ZM series Detrola consoles are not very common because they were only built for a short time. I haven't seen a 10ZM console any time recently. There are quite a few ZM tombstones around, mostly 6 and 7 tube versions, but I doubt they used the same cloth pattern.

I don't have any photos, hopefully someone else will have a similar set. If nothing turns up, you would be closer trying to find something similar to the cloth found in the next year's console models that are a lot more common.

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Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Thu 27, 2009 5:05 am 
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That's a dang gorgeous console, KT. Would it be too much trouble for you to post a picture of the back of it? What are those meter-type readouts on the front for? Are they to show the position of the volume control and tone control? Enquiry minds want to know!

Thanks,
John S.

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RIP:Curt Reed, Alan Douglas, "oldradiospook", & "Bigbandsman"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Thu 27, 2009 5:11 am 
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Location: Navasota Texas
Original would be nice for that radio but sometimes the original pattern went away years ago.

I know there are people selling repro. grill cloth so you might punch that into a search engine and see what you come up with. Since some have on-line pictures you might just go with something from that period you like.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Thu 27, 2009 5:52 am 
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Location: La Vergne, TN
John S. -

Thanks.

The lower left window is for the tone control: Off, Bass, Mellow, Treble and labeled "Microtone"

The lower right window is the band switch: Long Wave, Broadcast, Police, Foreign and is labeled "Microwave"

Both lower windows have red metal pointers as indicators. Large middle knob is fine/course tuning and lower middle knob is on/volume.

I'll have to set up some lighting to get detailed photos of the dials and will include chassis shots as well on Thurs. night.

This radio was totally painted with brown latex house paint when I originally got it. I stripped the paint off and had someone who was experienced refinish it and patch up some small spots in the veneer. The different veneers are true wood, no photo-finish. This radio and I have been through a lot together! 8)

Kelton


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Thu 27, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Location: Franklin, TN, USA
Kelton,

I have the 10ZM tombstone version of your console. Unfortunately, the cloth in mine was missing when I acquired it probably 25 years ago and it was a basket case. It's a nice radio now and one of the last I would get rid of. I have the 6ZM tombstone as well and it may have the original cloth. I'll take a look when I get home this afternoon and see if I can match it to one of the available patterns.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Thu 27, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Location: 253 Blanche St. Plymouth, MI USA
Patterns # 2, 11 or 17 are the most appropriate for this radio. I serviced one about 8 yrs ago for a customer.... I think it had something much like #11 in it. If you are recapping it, and want to order the cloth with capacitors, I have it in stock. Otherwise order directly....

http://www.grillecloth.com/pages/gallery.php

Mark Oppat
****


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Thu 27, 2009 7:54 pm 
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radioaddict wrote:




The lower right window is the band switch: Long Wave, Broadcast, Police, Foreign and is labeled "Microwave"




Kelton


Microwave? That's just classic! :lol: "Burning up the airwaves!", I guess you could say.

Will be waiting for the pictures with "worm on tongue"...I mean "bated breath". Sorry, that's from an old Mork & Mindy episode. Nice restore to this one, 'fer sure. Thanks!

John S.

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RIP:Curt Reed, Alan Douglas, "oldradiospook", & "Bigbandsman"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Fri 28, 2009 1:33 am 
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Kelton,

The grille cloth pattern on my 6ZM tombstone is very close if not identical to pattern #1 or #2. Hard to tell what the original color was, but the pattern is nearly identical. I don't know for sure that the console used this same pattern though.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Fri 28, 2009 3:22 am 
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Thanks Gary, if you get a chance, a pic of yours would be cool...

John S., here are some more pix...

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

You know, I always thought this was a 10 tuber due to the 10 in the model number, but I'm counting 12! Totally dumbfounded now! :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Fri 28, 2009 3:44 am 
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???? Why does your set have 12 tubes????

The first number in those early Detrola model numbers does indicate the number of tubes, and that set should have only 10 of them. 10=tubes, ZM=model series (in this case the type with 3 windows) 3= third cabinet variation.

3-6K7's, 6A8, 6H6, 6F5, 6C5, 2-6F6's and a 5Y3. Many were originally supplied with a 5Z4 as they left the factory with a full set of the "new" RCA designed metal tubes.

I see what looks like a 6SN7 that shouldn't be there, the socket appears to be mounted with screws. That tube didn't exist in late 1935 when this radio was built, so that and whatever the 12th tube is were added by someone later on. Looks like the socket at the right corner is also mounted with screws, and a phono jack which is not original is also present.

There are likely only a handful of 10ZM series consoles existing, however these were also sold under a variety of brand names as were almost all Detrola models in those days. I have seen several ZM series tombstones bearing such names as Chrysler, General, Monarch, and Morse.

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PostPosted: Aug Fri 28, 2009 4:56 am 
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6SN7 would be a preamplifier tube, if indeed that's what it is, then someone did a modification to accomodate a record player. Kind of unfortunate, but not all that bad. Who would even know with the back of the radio facing the wall, anyway? You could add a record player (or any other line device) to this at any time, if you wanted to.

Thanks for posting the additional photos, Kelton. Not a very common radio, evidently! It's a beautiful console, even with the mod.

John S.

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RIP:Curt Reed, Alan Douglas, "oldradiospook", & "Bigbandsman"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Fri 28, 2009 5:01 am 
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Location: La Vergne, TN
The two tubes on the far right, one behind the other, are both 6v6's. The other (3rd back from the right) is a 6sn7 as Dennis suggested. What was someone trying to do here?

Actually, the 6sn7 socket is riveted (it's just shiney) but the two 6v6 sockets are held with bolts. Nothing looks obviously done after-market, but then it's been around a lot of years.

One possible clue... the person that repaired the chassis for me told me that the transformer was not original and that he had to compensate for one of the voltages. This was back in the early 90's.

I'm not that technically skilled beyond an AA5 now, and back then when I first got it, I was really clueless! :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Fri 28, 2009 5:55 am 
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So, let's see if I got this straight. The 2-6F6's output tubes were replaced with 2-6V6 output tubes, and there is a 6SN7 in there? That would still make it 11 tubes, I think. Is there another tube in your radio that Dennis didn't mention above?

Anyway, I'm not technically inclined either (that's why we have people here like Dennis :) ), but can't think why someone would change the 6F6's to 6V6's, unless they only had 6V6's around at the time. I don't think 6V6's were around when this radio was made, either. I'm thinking early 1940's is when they came out. Perhaps whoever did put the new transformer in had to go to 6V6's, because that's what it worked with better. I don't know! :?

I say enjoy it the way it is! Someone had to know what they were doing, right? :)

John S.

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RIP:Curt Reed, Alan Douglas, "oldradiospook", & "Bigbandsman"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Aug Fri 28, 2009 6:10 am 
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Looks like the "other" tube is a second 6c5. I'll be busy over the weekend, but maybe next week I can map out the chassis so that possibly someone can speculate what was trying to be accomplished.

It actually sounds good, and it has followed me across the country. I do enjoy it very much.

Thanks for all the feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: Detrola info requested... (more pix)
PostPosted: Aug Thu 24, 2017 11:48 pm 
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Anyone know if a Sams exists for this model? I'm not having any luck finding one and the Rider's is pretty crude for a novice.

TIA!

10ZM or 10ZM3


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 Post subject: Re: Detrola info requested... (more pix)
PostPosted: Aug Fri 25, 2017 12:22 am 
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Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
Howard W. Sams first began publishing photofacts in 1946

Legible schematic: http://americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX ... e-0005.pdf
Alignment: http://americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX ... e-0006.pdf

Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: Detrola info requested... (more pix)
PostPosted: Aug Fri 25, 2017 12:44 am 
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That would 'splain it then.

Thanks Greg! And for the links too!


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 Post subject: Re: Detrola info requested... (more pix)
PostPosted: Jun Wed 19, 2019 3:05 pm 
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I recently began the refurb (I'm retired now - have the time) on a 10ZM3 my son gave me about 15 years ago. To answer the question on the grill cloth: I believe the cloth on mine is probably authentic, but I don't know that for sure. If it is, it's a dark burgundy. (Spartan burgundy) Solid color. Pretty flimsy, actually, but with a weave that will easily allow sound wave passage.
As an aside comment, the tube and transformer footprints on my model are slightly different. Yours has a can type electrolytic, and a vertically mounted power transformer. Mine has individual electrolytics underneath the Chassis, and the transformer is mounted horizontally. Mine seems to match the Rider schematic pretty well, except the Rider schematic has a small error in the voltage divider network.
Your restoration is BEAUTIFUL!!! I can only hope. On the shoulders of my cabinet there are two decorative pieces of walnut (?) that have a few chips missing around their edges. Did you have that problem? What did you use for replacement? Mine also has irreversible and, probably irreplaceable, UV damage to the plastics, especially the two smaller windows.
Jodie


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 Post subject: Re: Detrola info requested... (more pix)
PostPosted: Jun Wed 19, 2019 3:15 pm 
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I've never seen a pre-WW2 Detrola product with burgundy grille cloth or any color other than the usual tan/beige/brown range, sometimes with other colors of thread woven in on certain table models. However, they were well known to "use whatever you have or can quickly get" as an alternative to shutting down an assembly line for lack of something they needed.

The dial windows should be able to be replaced without too much difficulty, although you may have to mold your own using .020 Vivak material which is readily available and fairly simple to work with. The procedures for making the molds and then making the dial windows has been gone through in detail a number of times, you can find it by doing a search on ARF using the term Vivak.

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Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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