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 Post subject: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sat 23, 2021 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Sep Mon 14, 2020 2:14 am
Posts: 97
I realize the subject of a dead nicad battery doesn't strictly fit the purview of this site, but it's not that much of a stretch either. I simply don't want to go find another website I'll only ever use that once, and register and all that, just to ask one question.
I have a 1.2V size sub-C nicad battery. Yes, Nickle Cadmium. And it won't take a charge. It won't even let the little light on the wall-wort charger to light up.
The internet is so full of so much how-to things that are just pure baloney. Something about little hairs that grow in the battery and short it out, or somesuch explanation. The "cure" is always a variation of the same thing. Shock the battery with a much higher voltage to make those little hairs burn up, and the battery is magically brand new again.
i''d sure appreciate a second opinion from some sort of credible person on here. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sat 23, 2021 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 16875
Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
I have as little credibility as any one. So..

Yes, I have "zapped" "C and "Sub-C" nicads but the results are not "like new". They will take a charge but there is often not enough life left to accept but a few charges. If it is part of a battery the pack will charge but it will be way out of balance, and will give only so long as the weakest cell has anything left.

I say Zap it get the gadget to work, then get a new battery/cell/pack where your are happy with the $$.

I had some Craftsman drill packs fail. Craftsman packs are no more, Interstate Battery set me up for about $55/pack. 20 minutes away 24hr wait, done... chas

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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sat 23, 2021 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Sep Mon 14, 2020 2:14 am
Posts: 97
Thank you. I have an old 12V Sears car battery charger and enough wire to drape the battery over the edge of the cement porch where it can blow up, if it be so. Will that do?


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sat 23, 2021 8:44 pm 
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Joined: May Tue 30, 2006 4:46 pm
Posts: 10924
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Cadmium, tin, and many other metals will tend to form dendrites, which are sometimes called "needles" or "whiskers." These can cause the battery to short or create a path for rapid self-discharge.


Like many, I have tried using a big electrolytic cap to blast out the dendrites, but the fix, if any, is poor and not permanent. One of many reasons why we don't use NiCd any more in commercial stuff. Also the environmental hazard of Cadmium metal.

https://nepp.nasa.gov/Whisker/dendrite/ ... tation.pdf

It's science, not Internet baloney.

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sat 23, 2021 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Sep Mon 16, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 5073
Location: Tucson, Arizona U.S.A.
Don't leave your battery charger hooked up. A few quick touches is all it needs. If the battery gets warm stop.

Zapping batteries frequently works but not always and even if it does work, it only lasts a few months at best. It might be enough to get you by while you get a new battery.

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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sun 24, 2021 12:59 am 
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Posts: 16875
Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
Inside there is a seal and a puncture spike. If overloading too much to clear dendrites, the seal will perforate, may or not vent gasses. If that happens the cell will have an even shorter life as it is now open to air and will dry out...

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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sun 24, 2021 4:37 am 
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Joined: Sep Mon 14, 2020 2:14 am
Posts: 97
I have an assortment of new 450V capacitors for radio work. Would any of them do?


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sun 24, 2021 4:54 am 
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Posts: 16875
Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
I used a battery charger. I should have used a series current limiter like a light bulb but I want quick results. I'd zap the cell by tapping on the strap, never holding contact then attempt to charge. I did each one of them in a pack that were shorted. Then charge the pack, if any were still shorted repeated. After three tries on a cell took out of circuit and replaced with another salvaged from a duplicate pack.

What a waste of time :roll: I did this for a Ham friend who wanted to keep his walkies going until he could dump it at a flea. As I said, I did overheat one of them and lost the seal :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sun 24, 2021 7:27 am 
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Joined: Sep Mon 14, 2020 2:14 am
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Well after reading this, my worst fears are clear. I'm going to have to go on the internet and buy more Chinese crap to replace the Chinese crap i already have cluttering up the joint. Throwing more good money after bad. I rather well thought the whole thing was internet baloney. I feel like a pack mule, doomed to bring Chinese crap in the front door and hauling out the back door to a dumpster.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sun 24, 2021 8:45 am 
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Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
Posts: 5098
Location: Melbourne, Florida
I've had better luck burning off the whiskers. I've kept portable phone batteries alive for several years after each treatment.

RRM


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Sun 24, 2021 11:59 pm 
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Joined: Sep Mon 16, 2013 2:42 am
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Location: Tucson, Arizona U.S.A.
rcflyboy wrote:
Well after reading this, my worst fears are clear. I'm going to have to go on the internet and buy more Chinese crap to replace the Chinese crap i already have cluttering up the joint. Throwing more good money after bad. I rather well thought the whole thing was internet baloney. I feel like a pack mule, doomed to bring Chinese crap in the front door and hauling out the back door to a dumpster.

Try Digi-Key or Mouser. The batteries may still be made in China but they will be made to a reputable company's specifications.

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Who's that swimming in the punch bowl?
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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Tue 26, 2021 12:06 am 
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Joined: Apr Mon 18, 2011 3:52 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Yorktown NY, 10598
I wanted to keep my Ni-Cd Porter Cable drill going after the battery packs died, so I went in eBay and bought 20 Chinese 4/5C cells at a 'bargain' price. As you may have guessed, they were no bargain. Junk. So I ordered a bunch from Tenergy and as of today, they are still performing well. One tipoff to a ripoff is when the battery seller makes unrealistic claims...the Chinese batteries promised 2200 Mah. Fat Chance! The Tenergy cells claimed 1300 Mah, which is what it should be.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Tue 26, 2021 5:51 am 
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Joined: Sep Mon 14, 2020 2:14 am
Posts: 97
Ion Trap wrote:
I wanted to keep my Ni-Cd Porter Cable drill going after the battery packs died, so I went in eBay and bought 20 Chinese 4/5C cells at a 'bargain' price. As you may have guessed, they were no bargain. Junk. So I ordered a bunch from Tenergy and as of today, they are still performing well. One tipoff to a ripoff is when the battery seller makes unrealistic claims...the Chinese batteries promised 2200 Mah. Fat Chance! The Tenergy cells claimed 1300 Mah, which is what it should be.

I'm done with China. Bottom line. Next plane I build will be out of an old American chainsaw motor. No batteries, no glow plugs needing Chinese batteries to get them started. If my radio gear needs a new transistor or a tube, I'll get it from Russia, if my own country won't make it. When there are no more alternatives I'll find another hobby.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Tue 26, 2021 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Sep Mon 16, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 5073
Location: Tucson, Arizona U.S.A.
Time to find another hobby. How about stamp collecting?

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Jim Mueller

Who's that swimming in the punch bowl?
It's Walter Wart, the freaky frog!


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Wed 27, 2021 2:31 am 
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Joined: May Tue 30, 2006 4:46 pm
Posts: 10924
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Try using NiMH batteries instead of NiCd

Don't try to revive an Li battery by burning out whiskers... you may burn down your house.

Image

Rich

PS: NiCd batteries don't like abuse. Fast charging creates heat and loss of capacity. Letting them go flat is also a problem. No one seriously uses NiCd these days. Stuff you can buy on *bay is probably suspect.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Wed 27, 2021 6:13 am 
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Joined: Sep Mon 14, 2020 2:14 am
Posts: 97
My next airplane will be made out of a chainsaw or weed eater motor, where I need no batteries. Just good old American AC Fire Ring Spark plugs and Japanese-made Eneloop home-wired battery battery packs for the Xmitter and receiver. Sorry China, I have learned to live without you and your friends. It's just environmentally sound practice. China is the #1 contributors to the growing scourge of American landfills. No more ebay or Amazon crap for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Thu 28, 2021 12:54 am 
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Posts: 5073
Location: Tucson, Arizona U.S.A.
Eneloops are made in China now. They have been for several years.

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Jim Mueller

Who's that swimming in the punch bowl?
It's Walter Wart, the freaky frog!


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Jan Thu 28, 2021 8:27 am 
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Joined: Sep Mon 14, 2020 2:14 am
Posts: 97
Jim Mueller wrote:
Time to find another hobby. How about stamp collecting?

Thank you. I may already have. I also have been interested in model airplanes along with electronics. not plastic junk that doesn't fly, where you go blind detailing bugs on the windshield with compulsive-obsessive detail. I'm talking about stick and tissue, like REAL planes that can actually fly.
I spoke with a rep of Guillow's several times recently. They had gone Chinese a few years ago, but they are now taking balsa wood on their docks again to make planes right here. An excellent product. The only part is the Printed in China box. I've built about a dozen Guillows American-made planes over the years and a couple Sig planes of Montezuma Iowa. Good stuff. Top notch products.
I love restoring vintage American electronic gear, but not if I have to buy the parts I need from the devil. I am DONE.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Feb Tue 02, 2021 6:15 pm 
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Joined: May Tue 30, 2006 4:46 pm
Posts: 10924
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
The last Eneloops I bought were made in Japan. Look for the ones with WHITE insulating seals.

https://eneloop.panasonic.com/en/produc ... p-pro.html

Quote:
Made in Japan

Panasonic eneloop is designed, manufactured, and tested in Japan to rigorous quality-control standards. No matter where you are in the world, expect supreme Japanese craftsmanship with every battery.


I have seen Eneloops on the racks at big box stores and they have BLACK seals and made in China.

Plucked from the Internet:

Image

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Dead NiCad Battery
PostPosted: Feb Thu 18, 2021 1:27 am 
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Joined: Dec Sat 28, 2019 4:18 pm
Posts: 1076
Location: Corinth, TX
Jim Mueller wrote:
Time to find another hobby. How about stamp collecting?

Just don't buy Chinese stamps?

John


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