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 Post subject: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Tue 11, 2022 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Jul Fri 02, 2021 6:20 am
Posts: 24
Location: Ukraine .Odessa
Hello to all!
need help or advice on the situation that arose at the ebay auction. sent the receiver to the buyer in Brazil in working order. he received it and opened a dispute that the receiver does not work. the auction debited money from my account. I did not receive the goods back. I write to the buyer, he does not answer. I cannot contact the auction. Someone faced a similar problem.


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Tue 11, 2022 4:32 pm 
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Igor62 wrote:
the auction debited money from my account. I did not receive the goods back. I write to the buyer, he does not answer. I cannot contact the auction.
I believe you should be able to contact ebay about getting the goods returned, but I will let others address that. However, I think you have seen the last of your item.

For future reference I would make a couple of recommendations. Always sell vintage stuff on ebay as being for parts or not working. Then complaining about something not working which is advertised as not working is less of a problem. Yes, I know you want them to know it is working, but lets face it, by the time it gets through shipping all bets are off. They are lucky to get it in one piece let alone working. Maybe the radio really did arrive "not working" or even in pieces, but you will never know for sure.

Then I would never bother to sell anything to a foreign buyer. It's not worth the problems (such as these). If you do send anything to a foreign buyer consider it a donation for which you will get nothing in return.

Finally never use the Ebay shipping when sending to a foreign buyer. Your radio will be seized by Ebay. The customer will not receive it, but you might get your money. They think anything containing a "vacuum tube" has Mercury in it and seize it as being something that cannot be shipped (contains toxic materials).

Finally, and you probably won't appreciate this, I stick with cash-and-carry in person sales. You walk away with cash and they buyer walks away with the product period. No middleman, no complaint department, everyone gets what they get and the deal is over done period. I have sold cars this way via Craigslist without any issues (meet at a bank parking lot, make the sale, go into the bank to have them check the cash and notarize paperwork, then everyone walks/drives away).

Remember there are a lot of people out there who buy stuff all the time and then make a claim, get their money back and never return items, or claim they shipped something back but you never get it, or you get back a pile of junk that is not what you sent out.

I will buy stuff on Ebay, but I never sell anything via Ebay. The stuff I buy is not very expensive and if I never receive it and even if Ebay doesn't do their job I can dispute it on my credit card account and get my money back. When selling, you are screwed if the buyer does any of the above crap. Ebay doesn't care because they got their "piece of the action."

Lessons learned the hard way do hurt and I am sorry this happened to you.

Curtis Eickerman

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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Tue 11, 2022 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sun 29, 2017 6:55 pm
Posts: 25
It depends also how you set up your auction. Did you set "buyer pays return shipping"? If he opened a case, Ebay should contact you to respond. Google a phone number for Ebay customer service and call them. One could call them in the past, but I don't know if it's still possible.


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Wed 12, 2022 3:11 am 
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I agree with Curtis that selling outside the country does carry some risk. How much can depend on what country you're shipping to, some countries have far more corruption than others.

Since I started shipping to some countries, I've notices overseas buyers will pay far more than American buyers for some radios.
On the other hand, selling on EBay will likely net you far more money in the long run than local cash and carry sales, especially if you're selling radios that are rarer and in excellent condition. You can sell your radios as non-working, but again, you will be leaving a lot of money on the table over time if they are working since a working radio almost always brings in more than a non-working one (all else being equal) and reduces the potential amount of bidders.

How long was the buyer an EBay member and how much feedback did he/she have?

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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Wed 12, 2022 8:28 am 
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Joined: Jul Fri 02, 2021 6:20 am
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Location: Ukraine .Odessa
atwaterkent1 wrote:
I agree with Curtis that selling outside the country does carry some risk. How much can depend on what country you're shipping to, some countries have far more corruption than others.

Since I started shipping to some countries, I've notices overseas buyers will pay far more than American buyers for some radios.
On the other hand, selling on EBay will likely net you far more money in the long run than local cash and carry sales, especially if you're selling radios that are rarer and in excellent condition. You can sell your radios as non-working, but again, you will be leaving a lot of money on the table over time if they are working since a working radio almost always brings in more than a non-working one (all else being equal) and reduces the potential amount of bidders.

How long was the buyer an EBay member and how much feedback did he/she have?


Thank you all for the good advice.
Buyer with zero rating and no reviews.


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Wed 12, 2022 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Sep Fri 14, 2018 11:18 pm
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Location: Livorno, Italy
Igor62 wrote:

Thank you all for the good advice.
Buyer with zero rating and no reviews.


Zero rating? Uhm, not a good candidate as a buyer. I always decline offers from zero-rating buyers especially from abroad (I'm in Italy).


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Wed 12, 2022 3:56 pm 
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Location: Plymouth, MI
Good advice.

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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Fri 14, 2022 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Jan Tue 31, 2012 1:55 am
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Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
As a seller on eBay it is important to…
always state that you accept returns,
(buyer pays return shipping) as a lot of refunds are now completed by an automated system. Buyer complains and gets a refund - - and... if you had a returns policy of - - I do not accept returns, then they get to keep your item as well.
eBay sees about 2 billion transactions every day!

------------

This - - "Return an item for a refund" - - process will get you through to an eBay representative.
Just follow it.

When signed in to eBay...

At the bottom of the main page click on Contact us.
Image

On the next page click on Returns & Refunds.
Image


Then click on Return an item for a refund.
Image


Then click on Chat with our automated assistant or connect with an agent.
Image


This will open a pop-up text chat window where you will communicate with a Robot.
Image


If you persist with the A.I. Robot, it will... after some time connect you to a human where you will continue to communicate by text... be patient and do not close the text chat box… someone will eventually reply.

If they are closed or a representative is not available… try again at another time.
Occasionally there will be an option for them to telephone you back.


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Fri 14, 2022 8:44 pm 
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egg wrote:
As a seller on eBay it is important to…
always state that you accept returns,
(buyer pays return shipping) as a lot of refunds are now completed by an automated system. Buyer complains and gets a refund - - and... if you had a returns policy of - - I do not accept returns, then they get to keep your item as well.
eBay sees about 2 billion transactions every day!
Cool. So open a new account, buy something from someone who says they do not accept returns. Claim a problem when you receive the item. Get your money back and keep the item. Close the account and open a new one and do it all over again. :shock:

Then if you accept returns the buyer sends you junk back that is not what you shipped. It only costs him shipping, he still keeps your refund and still keeps the item for the cost of shipping. Opens a new account, rinse and repeat.

This ranks right up there with the people who now get to shoplift without serious risk for dollar amounts up to $1000.

Great system.

"Idiocracy" it's not just a movie.

Curtis Eickerman

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Last edited by Eickerman on Jan Fri 14, 2022 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Fri 14, 2022 9:03 pm 
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Location: Plymouth, MI
I've used EBay for a long time and have rarely run into a problem, and when I did, it was resolved to my satisfaction as a buyer or seller withe only one minor exception. I am amazed how many experienced sellers don't understand the rules or how to properly handle a problem if one comes up.

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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Fri 14, 2022 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Feb Fri 20, 2015 10:37 pm
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Location: SE Minnesota 55949
Some real good advice has been given. I will add when you dont accept any returns you might as well put a yellow flag on your title to draw attention to it. Scammers seek out sellers of expensive goods from sellers who do not except returns. Why? Because of what just happened. They get the item and the money, all legal like, if they are in another country especially.

Dont sell expensive things out of country, whatever country your in. And always have a return policy where you accept them or your going to have this happen. If you can afford to lose them then it may not matter.


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Sat 15, 2022 12:44 am 
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Eickerman wrote:
This ranks right up there with the people who now get to shoplift without serious risk for dollar amounts up to $1000. Great system.
Of course. Because baseline retail staff and their equally baseline law enforcement staff have both been under the ``above my pay grade to have to tolerate that'' attitude for years now with their supervisors, managers and other higher-ups under the equally opposite ``below my pay grade to have to tolerate that'' for an equal or longer amount of time.

See elsewhere under ``Everybody wants their own piece of the pie with little to no work or else somebody else doing all the work (class action or other attorneys of of such actions either the attorneys' firms get rich or the attorneys themselves get rich through all these deep pocketed corporations settling vs litigating).

The other thing you can do is open up a chargeback with your bank, open up a second one with the VISA/MC processing system and a third one with Adyen (eBay payment processing system).

They will all get declined the first time through.
Appeal and escalate until one or more complies with the directive.
Inbetween, take the escalation case numbers down for all three.
Submit all three to each of the three chargeback escalation avenues.

Eventually they will keep escalating and escalating and escalating and end up with people or departments who will as previously discussed understand that it will be cheaper easier and less of a public relations nightmare to comply with what the customer asked in the first place.

You will 95% of the time get at least one of the three refunded.

In the event that you get two or all three refunded at the same time - you use that as Justified Compensation for the other 5% of the time where you didn't get anything but run around in circles between those original three.

It's no different than the big-Santa-bellied ``HUNGRY AND HOMELESS'' six-figure e.g. Silicon Valley engineering employee holding up that sign dressed up in rags three days without a shave or a shower on weekends and vacations sitting in a busted up wheelchair by the freeway onramp under a yard umbrella looking for donations and making another six figures 100% tax free.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... apped.html

And got his Legal Aid attorney to get the charges expunged and went right back out and picked right back up where he left off.

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LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Mon 17, 2022 7:32 am 
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Posts: 24
Location: Ukraine .Odessa
It turns out that this is a common type of fraud on an ebay auction, to receive the goods and then open a dispute, which is resolved in favor of the buyer and receive a refund.
and the auction does not delve into the problem, everything is solved automatically at the program level, there is no live communication with the staff, while the auction still receives its commission.


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Mon 17, 2022 7:39 am 
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[quote="egg"]As a seller on eBay it is important to…
always state that you accept returns,
(buyer pays return shipping) as a lot of refunds are now completed by an automated system. Buyer complains and gets a refund - - and... if you had a returns policy of - - I do not accept returns, then they get to keep your item as well.
eBay sees about 2 billion transactions every day!

------------
I walked all this way but no one heard me ...


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Mon 17, 2022 11:59 pm 
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Posts: 4874
Location: Meridian, MS 39307
I don't sell on Ebay anymore, but the one time I got scammed out of something (a $45 record player) was by a zero feedback user in CA. I sold the record player as "working when it left here, but I make no guarantees as to how long it will work and it is sold 'as is'....no refund, no return." I soon found out that "no refund, no return, as-is" means nothing to Ebay.

Anyway, she claimed it didn't work and when I reminded her that she bought it "as is", she pushed it further and my only options were to refund her in full (including shipping) and let her keep the item. Or, require her to send the item back before she is refunded. The only catch to that is the return shipping would have been on me and I was already losing too much, as it was (had to refund the witch her initial auction bid + the price she paid for shipping + I still had to pay FedEx for what it cost to ship it to her in the first place). Had I made her send the item back, I would have had to pay all that + the return postage and she could have sent back a pile of dog poop (Ebay does not care, as long as the tracking number says "delivered"). Ebay has a "suck it up...it's the cost of doing business" attitude, but for little guys such as myself, it's hard to just "suck it up."

What happened to me is a common scam and I feel like you have been scammed, as well.

Personally, I'd have a hard time sleeping if I pulled a stunt like that, just to get something for free. However, there are people out there who are not bothered a bit by pulling crap like that.

Ebay is still the best outlet to reach the most people and to get the most money for your item, but it is too risky and there is now too much "red tape" for my liking.

As far as local "cash 'n' carry" sales, those are the best kind if you live in a market that will support the kind of items that you're selling. However, not everyone lives in an area that supports the sale of vintage electronics (Lauderdale County, MS is one such area....I know from experience).

There needs to be some form of "buyer protection" in place, but something needs to be done about these scamming scum bags who just want something for free.

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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Tue 18, 2022 2:43 am 
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Location: Long Island NY
Just call eBay. Here is the number i use...

866-540-3229

Kirk

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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Tue 18, 2022 4:34 am 
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Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
Thank you for calling eBay
Please listen closely as the ways to contact eBay have changed.
This number is no longer in service.
Out customer service representatives will call from this number but it is outbound only.
Please visit our website and go to Help and Contact and open up a chat or request a call.

Baseline customer service representatives have only the same abilities as those which
a customer can avail themselves online. Requests for escalation get ignored or run around in circles between the main four departments of customer service, tech support, seller affairs buyer affairs and trust and safety.

If your issue is not something easily resolved by one of those four departments, please call your local 211 information and referral line for further assistance. If no help is forthcoming from there, call your 411 or your operator for assistance.

No eBay does not care about you. Their third party call chat and correspondence centers get paid whether they help you or not.

If you have a problem or a question call the office talk to staff Monday through Friday 9-5 in English and Spanish. Esta mensaje sera repetito en Espanol. Favor mantengesa en la linea.

Over and over and over until somebody gets a class action going on for your issue and makes the Federal Government force eBay to comply and then they still don't.
And then they wonder why people are leaving.

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LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Tue 18, 2022 7:29 am 
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yesterday I chatted with the manager for an hour, the result is zero
- I am very sorry and understand your problem, but the conversation is over, and then, as a mockery, they sent a transcript of our conversation by e-mail and thank you for contacting them, the height of cynicism.


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Tue 18, 2022 1:49 pm 
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Igor62 wrote:
Yesterday I chatted with the manager for an hour.
The result is zero.
Then they sent a transcript of our conversation by e-mail and thank you for contacting them.
Of course.

Because of the aforementioned process-orientation by agents anymore - meaning nobody cares if their process helps anything or hurts it or not. All they care is they pushed the right buttons on their console, recited their correct frequently asked question answers or explained their company policy correctly.

Most people are results-oriented and that's been the longest running clash in American business since the Greeks and the Romans.

One way to get past the idiots even in the supervisor or manager corps is to do what I did and loop them around in their own stalemates they create (see below).

Eventually after being run around in their own stalemates, even a manager (tier 3) or a director of operations (tier 4) will escalate where you need to be - above and outside their third party contracted call, chat or correspondence service centers back to the actual contracted company administration.

These and other non-customer-facing back office departments have the ability expertise and authority all at the same time to get you what you need. Every other department has two out of three and most if not all customer-facing departments only have one out of the three if they even have that.

Escalating above there requires threats of a police report for interstate consumer fraud - which - once you get to a sufficient level of authority - they DO take seriously - also to your local State Attorney General various class actions that are going on with eBay all the time or your local TV radio newspaper or social media watchdog organization.

In the case of the latter, they have a recurring directory of back-office numbers at these various companies where they don't have to tolerate the offshored process oriented people who have limited if any ability authority or expertise.

The four biggest loop-regeneration phrases I leaned when I used to volunteer in the disabled consumer advocacy groups is to counter each of their prerecorded messages delivered by a live agent with the opposite recitation:

The first thing they do when they run out of prerecorded messages to recite or paste into chat - especially for legal threats - is they refer you to the eBay User Agreement. Counter this with:

A) Invalid response. Please try again. Redirects to the eBay User Agreement are invalid as there is no live agent there with the authority to solve the problem.

They will then try to point you to a Government Relations automated contact page which is also useless as the information does not go anywhere. Counter this with:

B) Invalid response. Please try again. Redirects to the Contact Government Compliance or Legal Affairs page/department is invalid as that has been done repeatedly with no results.

The agent will then attempt to redirect you to other baseline agents in other departments, namely Buyer Affairs, Seller Affairs, Account Trust and Safety, Processes and Payments or back to Customer Service.

Those baseline agents will attempt to redirect to their equally third party contracted response processing supervisors, managers and directors of operations none of which will have the ability expertise and authority level you need to get what you want.

The higher ups - still in the response processing center - will drop you back to the baseline staff again to restart the loop. Counter this with:

C) Invalid response. Please try again. Redirects to the other departments discussed above is also not valid as the act will perpetuate the endless loop between customer facing departments in third party call chat or correspondence response processing centers and supervisors and managers.

Eventually they will run out of prerecorded messages, protocol or policy to recite and will attempt to disconnect the call/chat. Counter this with

D) Invalid response. Please try again. Disconnection of the call chat or correspondence session without resolving the problem is invalid as this will restart the endless loop.

Other rebuttals that have had a modicum of success:

E) If you have a problem or a question you need to escalate this case beyond your supervisor, manager and director of operations to your executive escalations and corporate compliance office.

When they've tried to run you around the stalemate multiple times and begin to start acting like they are REALLY going to hang up on you - counter this with:

F) This call, chat or correspondence session is transcribed for quality assurance and will be forwarded to your quality control administration for disciplinary action.

Agent disconnection due to noncompliance with directives will cause automatic reinitialization/redial over multiple lines until the directive is complied with. First two, then 4 8 16 and so forth. Waiting for compliance.

G) If you have a problem or a question, you need to open up a quality control ticket with your Office of Government Relations for consumer fraud. Waiting for compliance.

And just keep cycling between this handful of rebuttals - most of which were written/developed by consumer rights administrators in the days before the back office directory was necessary or even commonplace.

A few others you might end up using:

When an agent refuses to comply with the directive of escalating, and they tell you something along the lines of ``they are checking their resources'' counter this with:

1 You are researching your contact directory, protocols, tools or other automated guidance. We're sorry, but that is not a valid response.

There is nothing in your knowledgebase, protocol, training or computerized tools/resources that will be able to deal with this issue as evidenced by the last dozen or so chats, calls or correspondence attempts all of which flow through a contracted response processing center with no ability expertise or authority to solve the problem.

2 Chat has been idle for five (5) minutes. Agent must respond and comply with directive within two (2) minutes or chat will disconnect and reinitialize over multiple lines. First two then four eight sixteen and so forth. Waiting for compliance.

(Repeat for 6 min and 7 min and then counter with):

Chat has been idle for seven (7) minutes. Agent has neither responded nor complied with directive. This call or chat will now disconnect and reinitialize over multiple lines. First two then four eight sixteen and so forth. Agent noncompliance has been transcribed and will be forwarded to their Quality Control Administration for disciplinary action, Thanks for calling/chatting today. Goodbye. (and restart from the beginning by reinitializing the chat or calling again).

Most of these I have used so many times on so many different companies that I have them either memorized like name rank and service number - or I have it paraphrased that I can reword it with ease for the express purpose of frustrating the agent to a point where they are having a tug-of-war within themselves between
i) Their insistence that Issue X is above their pay grade
ii) Their fear of breaking protocol by escalating to people who feel issue X is BELOW their pay grade.

Eventually the agents fear of being disciplined subsides and their feeling of ``I'm not paid enough to tolerate this'' wins out and that's how you get your cooperation.

Most of these rebuttals still work, because sooner or later they are going to want to classify you, your account and or your issue as a ``nuisance'' that refuses to go away.
You want them to do that, because that also requires escalation above and outside their third party response processing center where everything is treated as ``being above everybody's pay grade'' to help you or do anything other than their process.

Simply do what everybody else does and put the basic rebuttals into a word-processing document and start tweaking it yourself to retain what works and jettison what doesn't.

Yes it takes hours or days to get it done - like I said it took me eight months to get exempted out of DOB/SSN seller requirements and have my Federally-guaranteed rights honored by eBay as a Member of a Federally Protected Class - but eventually between
A) the three chargeback processes described above
B) reporting it to various disability and consumer advocacy groups and
C) their equivalents with mass media or social media
D) joining the various class actions described above or starting your own

eventually you get the compensation you are looking for.

If you get it more than once by more than one of the above - like I said - keep it as Justified Compensation for the small percentage of times that you got run around in stalemates, lost and didn't get any resolution.

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LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: return of goods to ebay
PostPosted: Jan Tue 18, 2022 4:57 pm 
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Posts: 1275
Location: Bristol TN 37620
Ndiamone,

Wow! I admire your tenacity.


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