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 Post subject: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Sun 10, 2019 8:30 pm 
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1936-Philco-Model-116X-Vacuum-Tube-Console-Radio-/372596313493

The picture doesn't look like a 116X. Even in the guy's description where he copied the data/images from RM.org, it shows the standard 116 that doesn't look like this.

Looking at the back of this one on ebay, the chassis doesn't line up with the cabinet chassis supports, so I'm wondering if maybe someone stuck a 116 chassis into another cabinet model?


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s-l500.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Sun 10, 2019 8:35 pm 
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Image
Philco 660
https://radioatticarchives.com/radio.htm?radio=1468

Image
116X
https://radioattic.com/item.htm?radio=1030190

The 660 has four bands while the 116 has five bands. I see only four bands on this radio.

Image

The seller has simply misidentified this radio as a 116X when it's actually a 660. Both chassis look nearly identical. I don't know what the story is with those chassis support brackets.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 1:56 pm 
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A "FrankenPhilco"

Chassis is from 116X. Appears to have P-P 6A3 audio output tubes on left side, transformer placement of chassis from 116X (console). The 116B table model used P-P 42 audio output tubes.

Cabinet is from a 16X, not 660X. The tells are the inclined sound board, speaker mounted on transverse support brace, hole on right side of cabinet that originally held a QAVC toggle switch. Also, the 660X did not come from the factory with the "Echo Absorbing Screen", as did the 16X.

The dial escutcheon was from a 116, and appears to have replaced the original Bakelite model 16 escutcheon. The mounting is just slightly off and uses four new-appearing brass screws. Control hole placement is interchangeable between models 16 and 116.

Innovative way to make one decent looking radio from two with problems.

-O.B.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 2:29 pm 
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Old Buzzard wrote:
Chassis is from 116X. Appears to have P-P 6A3 audio output tubes on left side, transformer placement of chassis from 116X (console). The 116B table model used P-P 42 audio output tubes.

Must be the 116B chassis then because I see someone wrote on the chassis "42" next to the output tube sockets.

Old Buzzard wrote:
Cabinet is from a 16X, not 660X. The tells are the inclined sound board, speaker mounted on transverse support brace, hole on right side of cabinet that originally held a QAVC toggle switch. Also, the 660X did not come from the factory with the "Echo Absorbing Screen", as did the 16X.

Good eye.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 3:05 pm 
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I believe it is a 116X chassis in there. The output tubes do look big enough to be 6A3s.

There is a 42 driver tube next to them.

The escutcheon would need to be replaced with the correct one to be able to show all 5 bands.

Quite a PhrankenPhilco! :D
I wonder if it has the correct U-9 speaker installed?

-Steve


Attachments:
philco116x.png
philco116x.png [ 67.88 KiB | Viewed 230 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 3:31 pm 
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I own the three Philco console models referred to in my earlier post, which are "as manufactured". That information was shared after carefully inspecting and comparing the units, thus reaching my stated conclusions.

FWIW

-O.B.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 3:36 pm 
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O.B. I have no doubt as to your conclusions.
I hope I was reinforcing them :D

As I cannot see ebay at this moment (blocked) I can't tell what speaker it has.

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 3:41 pm 
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azenithnut wrote:
As I cannot see ebay at this moment (blocked) I can't tell what speaker it has.

-Steve


Here ya go...

Looks like a strange line around the speaker like maybe there was a larger one in it's place at one point?


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 3:45 pm 
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Old Buzzard wrote:
I own the three Philco console models referred to in my earlier post, which are "as manufactured". That information was shared after carefully inspecting and comparing the units, thus reaching my stated conclusions.

FWIW

-O.B.

To add to the previous comments that this is showing only a 4 band display instead of 5, I'm wondering if maybe the 5th band is simply hidden by the escutcheon? There does appear to be more lighted display behind it, but cannot tell if there are any markings on it or not. If I remember right, didn't Philco trim their dials to the length of the bands? Meaning, they would never had left a bands width of space on the dial with no markings on it, right? If that's true, then I think that dial has a hidden 5th band behind that escutcheon.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 4:31 pm 
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5th band, with highest frequencies, does not show through dial window

can't discern if it is visible where one might expect a shadow meter

just compared the measurements of my 116X dial escutcheon and 660X dial escutcheons via photo to the item we've been discussing, and came to this conclusion:

the escutcheon was taken from a 1936 Philco series 650 or lower which is shorter and slightly narrower, with commensurately smaller viewing window than the 116X dial required for full view.

the dimensions and shape of the earlier cabinet dial cutout, used in the item discussed, differ from what the 116X escutcheon requires

I've been trying to post a side-by-side comparison photo showing both a real 116X dial window in-situ and the one for this Frankenphilco with similar image size. It makes the answer to '2100's question obvious.

I am unable to shrink the "jpg" to the site required 256KB, or 800X800, with the resolution necessarily to
make a comparison instantaneously obvious. Sorry.

-O.B.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 5:33 pm 
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Interesting, the U-2 speaker was used with the model 16 consoles such as 16X or 16L.

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 7:50 pm 
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Using the repro dial images from radio daze, it looks like it's a 116X dial behind that lower model escutcheon and you simply cannot see the 5th band on the top.

Here's some pictures of the dials to compare...


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116dial.jpg
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16xdial.jpg
16xdial.jpg [ 96.98 KiB | Viewed 184 times ]
s-l1600.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 7:52 pm 
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Here's the section of the 116X dial that is even shown on the ebay radio:


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116dial2.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 8:05 pm 
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Old Buzzard is right about the escutcheon, it is a lower model than the 660. I just remembered I had a 660 a few years ago that I sold as I didn't really have a place for it. Here's a close up of it's original dial that Old Buzzard can verify matches his current 660 for accuracy. Notice the decorative overlay on the bottom is not as high on the 660 as it is on the one in this ebay listing.


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my660.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 116X? Looks different
PostPosted: Feb Mon 11, 2019 8:59 pm 
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'2100 and Steve are correct. Photos tells the dial story.

Note that earlier versions of the Philco model 16 had 5 bands, later versions 4, along with a two speed concentric tuning mechanism that mechanically resembled that of the model 116

My 16X has 5 bands and a "push-pull" tuning shaft to vary the speed, making it an early chassis in that cabinet...was bought from son of original owner, and never modified

To sum, regarding the eBay listed "116X":

chassis is from 116X as is the dial, escutcheon from model 630, 640, or 650

both speaker and cabinet are from 16X with the newer style cabinet (late 1934-35)

too bad the individual that cobbled this together didn't source the larger escutcheon or correct band switch knob

would have been interesting if something was done with the model 16 QAVC (tone in later versions) toggle switch hole...removal of the "Echo Absorbing Screen" and covering the "2" on speaker ID stamp would have been something, as well


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