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 Post subject: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 8:50 pm 
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Last week I bought a pair of "new [no defects] w/tags" Wrangler jeans on ebay for $27. Free shipping.
There was no picture in the ad of the actual jeans I would be getting. The seller only posted a standard Wrangler catalog photo of a man wearing jeans. But I wasn't worried because he stated no defects and "NWT" . So that means new with tags

When they arrived I could see, yes, there was one "new" waist band size-tag only; but they seemed new... so ok.
Upon further examination, however, I saw a very noticeable frayed seam all along the top of one pocket. Obviously it was a production error as the material was cut too short such that the edge sewing machine couldn't sew it closed properly. This kind of error is what is often found in "factory seconds"... not "new-first-quality".

I looked again at the waistband tag and saw that there was a big rubber stamp mark on it that was hard to read but what was legible on it said some letters like "__R-MIS" ... something that seemed like a probable factory inspector's reject stamp ... on both sides of the tag.

So I sent an Ebay note to the seller explaining that it had defects that looked like "seconds" and about the reject stamp, and I asked what to do next.

His first response was that he said he never sells "seconds" so I must be wrong and if I don't want them to send them back at MY shipping expense.

I replied that his ad said "no defects new" so since these jeans clearly have a big seam defect ... then they are NAD (not as described); and the tag even has, what looks like, a factory reject stamp.... and so ...as such, I ought be able to return for a full refund.
I also then took close-up photos of the frayed/defective seam and the rubber-stamped tag. and I attached those to my reply.

So his next response was to try to placate me politely. So he offered a $4 discount.

I explained in my reply that the frayed pocket was too bad to keep because the pocket top would start coming apart soon after use so I really did not want them AND that btw..I told him that I believe that typical factory seconds goods might sell for 50% or more off before I'd be interested ... but I said I was not interested in a discount anyway since the seam was too frayed ...I just wanted a full refund.

His next reply is where the "lunatic" part starts.... lol

He replies by claiming that I must have made up a rubber stamp and that I must be a scammer and that I am trying to "extort" money from him and that he does not deal with extortionists and so he will go to Ebay claiming I am an extortionist and he will fight with Ebay against any attempt I make to return them.

In my reply to that I politely asked him to relax and that I did not want ANY discount money at all...so I'm not extorting anything.. and that I just want to return for full refund.
He replied that he had a 100% reputation and he would fight Ebay against my return.

[NOTE:
OMG... what's with this guy I thought?... I just want a normal return refund ...why is he going so crazy??? I do not know.]


So my next step was to contact Ebay and show them the photos. Ebay was very helpful and told me to return them. They issued me a return shipping label and told me that they would guarantee me a full refund.. not to worry.

So now, knowing I was dealing with a bit of a "crazy guy" seller, as further insurance I took 6 more photos of the front and rear of the pants and close ups of the tags and the frayed defective seam. I assembled them as a collage photo and dated it on the photo with the return ship date and noted the condition as it was being packed for return. Then I shipped the box to the seller and gave him the tracking number in an Ebay note along with the photos showing him the complete detailed condition of the pants being returned as of that date.

Two days later when they arrived Ebay returned my payment in full. Thank you.

I thought that was the end. And, in a way, it was the end of MY claim because I was fully refunded already.

However a day or so later Ebay sends me a note saying that the seller asked them to step-in and intervene and that they will hold up all claims and get back to me in 48 hrs.

This seemed puzzling since I already had my refund and Paypal had returned it to my CC.

And now ( holy cow) I see attached to the Ebay note that the seller faked some photos he sent to them... lol

Yep... This CRAZY guy took a photo of some other, new but totally different Wrangler jeans in a plastic bag ... then he falsely claimed that THAT was what he originally sent me.
(remember his sales ad had no actual picture of what was originally being sold or what was sent. It only showed a photo of a standard ad of a man wearing jeans)
lol OMG

And to really out-do himself ... he also took another photo of the box I sent him... but next to that box he placed a different brand of non-wrangler jeans. He then falsely claimed that is what I returned. .... OMG ... lol

He then this crazy guy further falsely claimed that he even had taken a video of himself opening the box and taking those other brand jeans out of the box I sent.
So his claim to Ebay was that I sent back something different from what he sold me and therefore they should deny my return.

OMG....
[ all this effort just so he could save the shipping costs??]

Well I called Ebay and they said that my refund was okay... and that they will also have to allow his claim because they can't prove anything either way... but they suspect he might try this again one day and then they will close his account.

So I then...sent him an Ebay note and explained that Ebay fully refunded me so I have no motive.
... but I asked him why he would FAKE such a thing just to save the $8 in shipping costs?

OMG....
You won't believe his reply:

This totally-crazy guy actually told me that he made a video of him opening the box and receiving different jeans from what I sent. He said maybe I "accidentally" sent him the wrong jeans or else I am a scammer. ( OMG what a nut job)

So think about this .. Holy cow... he had to secretly, somehow maybe cut open the bottom and remove the jeans I sent and then hide a different brand in there... and then pretend he's opening the top and pull out the fake stuff HE just put in there... RIGHT?? what else? He certainly had to do something like that if he really did make a video... !!


WHAT???? How far are these lunatic Ebay-sellers willing to go?

Now... HE knows what he did to fake the photos.... Right?
And he knows that I know what he faked it too... right? ... lol
Yet this guy is pretending that I am un-aware of it?

Then he goes even further in his lunacy ... and tells me ..."maybe I made a mistake or I'm a scammer!!
So I told him not to try to con me.
And I remind him that ... he knows he faked it and I know he faked it.. and he knows too... that I KNOW he is a faker and a liar.... and just who is he trying to fool?

He wrote back that I must need mental help and I need to stop trying to scam people.... lol
OMG.

This guy is obviously continuing to pretend this happened in case Ebay is reading these notes... right.

So I told him that he's not fooling me so who's he kidding?

... I said to him, that I have already been refunded so I don't care ... and also that Ebay dropped it already so he can stop being paranoid that Ebay is looking over his shoulder reading his notes.

Yet he continues to try to "gas-light me " and claim to me... that his video proves that I tried to scam him and telling me to seek mental help ...

OMG ... lol.

Now of course.. I certainly know I returned the same correct pants he sold me and they match all the photos I took and which I sent to him and EBAY.

And btw.. I could NOT make a mistake and send him the worng thing as that's the only thing I was returning.
... On top of that.. even as I was putting the jeans in the box that day.. my mail man was waiting for me to finish boxing and taping it up .. so he was right here in my kitchen watching me ...and I was explaining why I was returning them. I even explained that I was taking all the extra photos because I was dealing with a weird seller.
( little did i know how weird the guy really is... Right?)

So I told the seller that he can't fool me. I know what I sent back and so does he!. ...lol

I told the guy that ...at the end of the day... he still has to look at himself in the mirror and HE and I both know what he did for only $8 in shipping money... and he has to live with his conscience over that.

So.. I ask you: Where do these Ebay seller lunatics come from???

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Last edited by Pbpix on Jun Tue 11, 2019 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Jan Fri 18, 2019 8:52 pm
Posts: 107
I’m glad it all worked out for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 9:04 pm 
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Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
stillthesame wrote:
I’m glad it all worked out for you.

Thanks..
...but I just can't believe how far some ppl will go. OMG

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To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 10:01 pm 
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Unbelievable!
The seller obviously has too much time on his hands, or decided to make a game of it, to see if he could "win".

After all, 8 bucks IS 8 bucks, eh? Almost enough to buy a hamburger at a coffee shop... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 10:05 pm 
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Location: Livermore, CA
I have to admit that's quite the tale! In answer to your subject line question, I have found that some small percentage of the population - whether they be eBay sellers, volunteers, parents, whatever - are just flat-out crazy. You just had the bad luck to do business with one of them. I don't know what the exact percentage of crazy folks is (5, 10, 20 percent???), but it's not zero.

-Bryan


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 12:26 am 
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Location: Capon Bridge, WV
I get jeans at WalMart. Easier to deal with, I can pick through them for a pair I like and people watching at Wally is always amusing.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 12:44 am 
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Joined: Sep Fri 07, 2007 2:27 am
Posts: 6049
Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Why do you continue to feed the fire and play his game by repeatedly contacting him? Ignore the fool. He probably is totally amused by how much of your time he is wasting. Get over it, and move on to life's next dilemma. Look how much time you've already wasted obsessing over this relatively trivial incident.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 12:56 am 
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wiscojim wrote:
Why do you continue to feed the fire and play his game by repeatedly contacting him? Ignore the fool. He probably is totally amused by how much of your time he is wasting. Get over it, and move on to life's next dilemma. Look how much time you've already wasted obsessing over this relatively trivial incident.

.

It wasn't really wasting my time at all. I wouldn't obsess over it... lol
The entire exchange of notes took less than an hour or so of my time.

I post it here because it's a funny slice of shameful behavior and some REAL life experience about those type of jerk-ebay-sellers and goof-ball encounters that Ebay seems to have cultivated.

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To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 2:27 am 
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Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Pbpix wrote:
It wasn't really wasting my time at all. I wouldn't obsess over it... lol
The entire exchange of notes took less than an hour or so of my time.

Plus all the time typing up your post and follow-ups here.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 2:30 am 
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wiscojim wrote:
Pbpix wrote:
It wasn't really wasting my time at all. I wouldn't obsess over it... lol
The entire exchange of notes took less than an hour or so of my time.

Plus all the time typing up your post and follow-ups here.

.

So he likes to do that. Big deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 3:17 am 
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Location: Albuquerque, NM 87123
I hope you gave that guy a Negative, and explained why he got it.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 3:19 am 
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wiscojim wrote:
Pbpix wrote:
It wasn't really wasting my time at all. I wouldn't obsess over it... lol
The entire exchange of notes took less than an hour or so of my time.

Plus all the time typing up your post and follow-ups here.

.

Yeah... but guess what? I'm human and crap like that gets under my skin.
I can not just walk away because after all, yes, I already got my refund... but I'm not a perfect human... and when I see lousy people doing lousy stuff I have a sense of values that won't let me ignore it.
I don't like seeing crooked ppl get away with crap like that scott-free and not having to deal with any of the consequences of their nasty actions.

So I occasionally have to confront those crum-bums and hold their feet to the fire letting them know that there are some ppl with honest values out here in the real world ... those who don't stand for that crap... and even though it won't prevent him from getting away with it as far as Ebay goes... he'll not soon forget that I don't ignore that stuff and he has to face his BS.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 3:22 am 
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Johnnysan wrote:
I hope you gave that guy a Negative, and explained why he got it.

I did.
I said :
" Item had defects, (NAD), crazy seller tried to fight the return but Ebay refunded."

He got Ebay to remove it claiming I tried to scam him and just wanted to ruin his reputation.... lol

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 5:47 am 
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Location: Rockaway , nj 07866
Reminds me of years ago I sold on ebay this 8mm sound projector to some one in ca or wa , well I shipped it out and a week later get this guy crying and complaining that it was busted to pieces , sends me pictures and it was wrecked even though it was packed well , so I respond that I was sorry it happened and not to worry it was insured , well he comes back and says you broke it and sent it to me deliberately , why would I do that ? I had pictures up on ebay and it was not broken , he couldn't accept that the carrier destroyed it , situation was resolved because it was insured.
another was I bought a 16mm projector that was supposed to be specially made to work with a video camera , any normal projector you will see a flicking image because the camera is 30 frames per second , the projector is 24 frames per second , anyway I won it , it arrived and I saw a flicking image and was not happy , he claimed I was trying to scam him that it is made to work with a video camera , so what I had to do was go to a camera shop in the area , the man there was nice enough to make out a letter that explained he was in business for years , examined the projector and it is a regular one - not made or modified for telecine or video camera , so ebay took my side and got me a refund.
there are more tales that can be told but those two stories are what came to mind


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 7:43 am 
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Location: Albuquerque, NM 87123
Pbpix wrote:
Johnnysan wrote:
I hope you gave that guy a Negative, and explained why he got it.

I did.
I said :
" Item had defects, (NAD), crazy seller tried to fight the return but Ebay refunded."

He got Ebay to remove it claiming I tried to scam him and just wanted to ruin his reputation.... lol


The reason eBay removed it was you use of the term 'crazy' in describing the seller. Not allowed (no matter how much evidence there is that he's a total nutjob). I think they use search algorithms to flag the negatives that don't meet their policies. I have left negatives that remained in place even though they were against eBay's policy, like the persons real name and user name.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 10:30 am 
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I bet if you had left out the personal attack and just stated the facts the Negative would have remained in place. Your description is a fresh reminder that we no longer have mental institutions and that they walk among us. This is also points out why you should never engage someone who cuts you off in traffic or is riding right on your tail.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 4:51 pm 
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Thinking outside the box..
Another possibility is the postman needed a pair of work jeans.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 5:16 pm 
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Its all abut greed & $$$$$$ :(

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 6:00 pm 
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Actually... what it comes down to is a lack of professionalism.
True professional businesses like all those large brick & mortar stores such as Sears or Walmart or Macy's etc are not run by one screwy guy in his basement or a housewife looking to sell junk for a few bucks. No; those large businesses know how to deal with customers, and they have entire departments trained for it. This is because they recognize that the CUSTOMER is the sole and primary source of their business. Without customers they have no business. These corporations are structured on the fundamentals of customer relations.
Ebay opened the door to any damned fool who wants to sell his junk like a garage sale to enter into the mass market without these people ever having any consideration or any rules or protections for the mass market customer base.
Ebay is at fault here.
Ebay should have anticipated the lack of seller training desired and required by ANY customer.
Ebay is slowly learning it and now has a money back policy... but there should be some VERY ultra-srtict penalties clearly spelled out to EVERY seller. It should be spelled-out to ALL Ebay-sellers that STRICT professional courtesy is REQUIRED at ALL times or you loose your account. No exceptions!
The sellers are at fault. Yes there are nutty buyers.. but technically there are no "bad" buyers for any business. Every buyer is a potential continued future customer and should be treated with kid gloves and dealt with in only the MOST respectful ways.
If Ebay sellers had strict rules like that... they would learn quickly how to operate a successful business ... not a junky garage sale / lemonade stand.
We've all heard the term "The customer is ALWAYS right" .... and it's true.... true, that is, if you want or expect to have ANY kind of a successful business.

Ebay should change the rules:
The NEW rules would never allow the sellers to EVER come in direct contact with the buyers. No.
The way it should be structured is that a seller offers goods as normal but the goods are presented by Ebay.
So Ebay becomes the "seller" of contact.
In other words all customer contacts and communications should go through the "Ebay Store"
Then it's the "Ebay Store" that actually presents the goods which they have taken on consignment from the original seller.
Now it isn't complicated.
It could happen overnight.
All Ebay has to do is to restrict/block all seller contact with the buyer entirely.
All customer relations and sales are only to be made by Ebay and the funds from that sale are passed along to the original seller when the sale ends and the customer is happy.
This idea would always have Ebay as the customer's point of contact. That's it.
Ebay decides what gets returned and how.
The original seller still profits by lots of sales to a broad market but Ebay acts as the consignment center.
In that NEW Ebay Store world... Ebay can present a friendly front to all its customers and it will thereby always have complete and sole control of its public appearance.
I think it would work nicely.
I think it's the solution to a happy customer base.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Jan Fri 18, 2019 8:52 pm
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There’s just so much wrong with the previous post. The old paradigm of ‘the customer is always right’ is dead, or at least dying. And, for the benefit of the customer. The employees/staff are the critical element in a company. Good, happy, competent staff and everything else should fall into place.

I’m not sure eBay would be onboard with your business model. As for me, eBay was best about 20 years ago when I first started using it. It may have been more like the Wild West, but I could handle that environment.

Don’t want to start an argument, but the customer isn’t always right.


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