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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Sep Fri 07, 2007 2:27 am
Posts: 6168
Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Pbpix wrote:
Where else in the world do you NOW buy ANYthing where you are able to speak directly to the vendor to complete or return a sale??


Flea market
swap meet
farmers market
local classifieds
local radio trading post
grocery store bulletin board
ARF classifieds
Facebook Marketplace
local bargain bulletin
friends and neighbors
Craigslist
many others

and EBAY

Almost any place that individual buyer/seller vending takes place.

And quit bringing up brick & mortar and big box retailers. They are not who troubled you, and they have plenty of return policies of their own to protect you.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Sep Fri 07, 2007 2:27 am
Posts: 6168
Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Pbpix wrote:
But Ebay can still forward your questions to the seller and send his answers to you... but Ebay acts like the filter to avoid bad words and conflicts... that's all.
They act as agents for both side to HELP only not hinder.
( kind of like a helpful "moderator" ... lol)


That's just crazy, Peter. You want ebay to have someone screen any/all communications when only a tiny minority are a problem?

They already have policies and procedures to deal with refunds and the like.

I'm sure only a super tiny fraction of all communications ends up in problems like you are having. And repeatedly going back at the seller just further escalated things, so you are to blame also for it getting out of hand. Upon first sign of seller problems you should have filed a SNAD complaint with ebay and gotten your refund directly from them. But no, you had to pester the seller more just to make a stand.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 11:20 pm 
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Location: SoCal, 91387
Pbpix wrote:
Johnnysan wrote:

Exactly. I have had numerous problems with items I bought on eBay, and almost always just a single email to the seller will result in every problem going away, either by refund (partial or complete) or another item sent. I would not trust eBay to negotiate the sale of a Twinkie; their intervention is usually too heavy-handed or too limp-wristed. Let's face it, they normally have no idea what you are buying or selling and have little comprehension of the troubles you are going through--all they know is you are mad and want justice.

Keep eBay out of the equation as much as possible.

But Ebay can still forward your questions to the seller and send his answers to you... but Ebay acts like the filter to avoid bad words and conflicts... that's all.
They act as agents for both side to HELP only not hinder.
( kind of like a helpful "moderator" ... lol)

Where else in the world do you NOW buy ANYthing where you are able to speak directly to the vendor to complete or return a sale??

Harbor Freight? .. nope
Home Dept.. nope
Car dealer .. nope
auto parts store... nope
... etc

You keep wanting to compare eBay to a retail business, which it is not. They don't sell merchandise of their own, but are simply a posting board for sellers and buyers. There is a difference. And they do act as an in-between go-by, if there is a problem between a seller and his buyer, but that service is only called upon when there is a problem, which at least in my own experience is very seldom.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 11:47 pm 
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Posts: 23861
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
wiscojim wrote:
Upon first sign of seller problems you should have filed a SNAD complaint with ebay and gotten your refund directly from them. But no, you had to pester the seller more just to make a stand.

.

Wrong!

Maybe you didn't read it clearly... I DID file NAD the 1st hour after the seller accused me of extortion... lol
That was when the Ebay rep saw my photos and issued me a shipping return and guaranteed a full refund
Then .... 2 days later after it was received by the seller ... I got my refund to Paypal.

So I thought it was all over ...done..

But it was another cpl days later that Ebay sent me an email and indicated the seller requested to have Ebay intervene on his behalf and so they said the claims were delayed... and all claims were on hold.
It was only then I became aware of the phony/doctored photos from the seller.
.. and it was only THEN that I 1st contacted him again to dispute his phony/staged photos ... only to defend my position and claim.
According to the Ebay rep today... it was AT THAT POINT in those following text exchanges that ebay detected the tone of his messages to me... and based on that, and their recent review by Ebay security ... the seller was issued a reprimand and warning.
Had I failed to contact the seller as I did his claim and un-challanged photos would have stood in his favor .... and now the evidence from that communications thread supported my position and he was reprimanded.

So had I laid down like a mute dog...instead of standing up a defending my position... the seller might have prevailed instead of me.

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


Last edited by Pbpix on Jun Wed 12, 2019 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 11:57 pm 
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Joined: Jan Fri 18, 2019 8:52 pm
Posts: 117
The balance of power on eBay is so much in favor of the buyer that I don’t think there’s very much I’d want changed. I could be the biggest dirt bag in the world (and some have already given me that title) and as a buyer, there’s not a lot I can do to lose. On a legitimate note, a seller sent me the much discussed poorly packaged item and I protested. Ebay ruled in my favor. Seller protested and things were put on hold. It was almost immediately there after that the seller was pretty much told by eBay to pound sand and my refund went through. I seriously doubt that his protest was even considered.

eBay. Why destroy the good (at least for the buyer) in search of what one person may think is the perfect. Or, at least, the near perfect. No absolutes, please

I bet a certain eBay customer service person got some laughs when he discussed Pbpix’s call in the break room. I can just hear it. ‘What the heck. I agreed just to make him happy.’


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 12:43 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 23861
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
wiscojim wrote:
Pbpix wrote:
Where else in the world do you NOW buy ANYthing where you are able to speak directly to the vendor to complete or return a sale??


Flea market
swap meet
farmers market
local classifieds
local radio trading post
grocery store bulletin board
ARF classifieds
Facebook Marketplace
local bargain bulletin
friends and neighbors
Craigslist
many others

and EBAY

Almost any place that individual buyer/seller vending takes place.

And quit bringing up brick & mortar and big box retailers. They are not who troubled you, and they have plenty of return policies of their own to protect you.

.

You're correct.
I didnt think about those in your list.. good.
But have you ever had to return anything to any of those sellers?
How do you reach a flea mkt seller or bulletin board seller?
If so .. how did it go?

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 1:21 am 
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Joined: Jan Fri 18, 2019 8:52 pm
Posts: 117
Wiscojim.....that last question(s) posed to you should be one(s) you hit out of the ballpark..


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 1:34 am 
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Joined: Feb Fri 20, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 100
Location: SE Minnesota 55949
On an item that was junk like that pair of pants, just file a SNAD, dont chat back and forth with the seller. Return it at seller expense, get your money back. Its that simple. If they pester you like this jerk seller did, dont reply but leave a neg feedback but keep it real simple, like "bad experience" or similar. If you go into detail it will get removed anymore it seems like.

There was twice when I should have left bad feedback to a seller but that was back when seller could leave buyers bad feedback so I didnt. Sellers like this jerk make it bad for all sellers.

I would not buy clothes anywhere but from a retailer directly or a thrift store. Many were bought at clearance sales and there was a reason it was clearance.

there are times to contact a seller first before returning but there isnt much use when its junk.

The seller was probably trying to prove he was right (by lying) to keep from having ebay add on that 4% extra fee they charge sellers with too many SNAD's now. It wasnt to save $8 on shipping. I bet he has had lots of SNAD's selling crap like those pants and he knew better. Now he's worried about getting more fee's.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 2:02 am 
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Joined: Sep Fri 07, 2007 2:27 am
Posts: 6168
Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
And with all this nonsense, Peter has never named the seller or linked to the auction in question. If he truly wanted to out the guy so that people could identify him as a crook and not deal with him in the future, we'd all have been told of his identity in the beginning.

So give us the info Peter. Let us all see the feedback the seller has for all his other transactions. Let us decide whether or not we would want to deal with him.

I for one would love to hear the other side of the story.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 2:07 am 
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Joined: Sep Fri 07, 2007 2:27 am
Posts: 6168
Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Peter, you asked about completing >or< returning a sale item. You didn't say both completing >and< returning it. Now you want to try to keep your argument going by continually changing the terms and looking for little loopholes in the opposing viewpoints offered.

Of course many of the venues I described when I responded to your question, such as with a flea market purchase or a bulletin board transaction, the item for sale is physically there and examined on the spot, and the transaction is only made after a satisfactory inspection. In those two arenas it is not pay up front, and then just go pick up the item and discover problems later necessitating a return. It is up to the buyer to make sure they are happy prior to handing over any monies. There generally will be no follow-up problems for the seller to address, as the deals were made as-is based upon the initial buyer evaluation. There is no basis for further recourse. So don't try to look for ways to twist your arguments in your favor by posturing the absurd.

I'm just not going to play Peter's game anymore. He continues to twist his terms to try to find even the most insignificant piece of a puzzle that will make his viewpoint valid. But in no universe will ebay be willing to step in and monitor all communications between buyer and seller just to look for problems that in most cases aren't there. Not with the expense that would require, that would have to be placed upon the buyers and sellers, making ebay unlikely to survive. Unlike him, I do have better things to do with my time. I have a radio meet to get ready for, just 3 days away. I need to get the newly purchased window air conditioner installed. I need to get a bunch of minor problems on my '67 Dodge Coronet taken care of, so I can sell it. I'm also in the process of moving from the upstairs bedroom and office to the lower level, to make things easier with my arthritis. All this while dealing with several nagging health problems that make lifting and carrying objects painful. And damn it, the lawn again needs mowing.

So continue tilting at windmills Peter. Maybe someday you will run the world, and get things your way. But some of us will just have to be content to live in the world that is here, and follow the rules already in place, unless they are truly worthy of being challenged.


(nodding and winking)

.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 2:22 am 
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Posts: 469
Location: 44035 (Near Cleveland Ohio)
I wouldn't use Sears as an example of how customers should be treated . . . . not within the past ten years anyway. Most of 'em have gone the way of a lame horse - - - put out of their misery.

Making ebay into a utopian seller/buyer model would defeat the very purpose it was created for. It's an on-line garage sale, where most sellers don't have a clue about what they're selling, unless it's their own personal items (which frequently they're not). There's always a few unscrupulous sellers out there, who deliberately misrepresent what they're selling (used car salesmen of yore?). Buyer beware is the key. If you want perfect pants, buy 'em new from the store of your choice. You chose to buy something at a discount price - - there's a reason it was discounted, Peter. Like the old saying goes - - if you want good hay, you gotta pay the price. However, it's cheaper if it passes through the cow first . . .

I've bought and sold many things through ebay, and the few problems I've had were easily and amicably resolved - - between buyer and seller, without "divine" intervention. It's worked well for me the past 15 years or so.

One word of advice, Peter - - - never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Dan


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 4:14 am 
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Posts: 23861
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
wiscojim wrote:
And with all this nonsense, Peter has never named the seller or linked to the auction in question. If he truly wanted to out the guy so that people could identify him as a crook and not deal with him in the future, we'd all have been told of his identity in the beginning.

So give us the info Peter. Let us all see the feedback the seller has for all his other transactions. Let us decide whether or not we would want to deal with him.

I for one would love to hear the other side of the story.

.

I don't think that's ethical. I don't think the mods would allow it either.
Even if I had a bad selling /buying experience here on ARF I would never mention the name.

All you need to know is that Ebay told me their security dept admonished him now.
So that's it.
No need for everyone here to get involved with that jerk on his Ebay site.
He'd probably complain to Ebay that I did that.. right?

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 4:20 am 
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Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
SparkyDan wrote:
If you want perfect pants, buy 'em new from the store of your choice. You chose to buy something at a discount price - - there's a reason it was discounted, Peter. Like the old saying goes - - if you want good hay, you gotta pay the price. However, it's cheaper if it passes through the cow first . . .


One word of advice, Peter - - - never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Dan

I wasn't buying looking only for bargains... From my experience ... If I went to ... Kmart the price is about the same or less... I see many jeans for $10-15.
But a close match is $25 here
https://www.kmart.com/wrangler-men-8217 ... ockType=G7

I buy online for ease of shopping... not cheapness

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 4:28 am 
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Posts: 23861
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
wiscojim wrote:
Peter, you asked about completing >or< returning a sale item. You didn't say both completing >and< returning it. Now you want to try to keep your argument going by continually changing the terms and looking for little loopholes in the opposing viewpoints offered.

Of course many of the venues I described when I responded to your question, such as with a flea market purchase or a bulletin board transaction, the item for sale is physically there and examined on the spot, and the transaction is only made after a satisfactory inspection. In those two arenas it is not pay up front, and then just go pick up the item and discover problems later necessitating a return. It is up to the buyer to make sure they are happy prior to handing over any monies. There generally will be no follow-up problems for the seller to address, as the deals were made as-is based upon the initial buyer evaluation. There is no basis for further recourse. So don't try to look for ways to twist your arguments in your favor by posturing the absurd.

I'm just not going to play Peter's game anymore. He continues to twist his terms to try to find even the most insignificant piece of a puzzle that will make his viewpoint valid. But in no universe will ebay be willing to step in and monitor all communications between buyer and seller just to look for problems that in most cases aren't there. Not with the expense that would require, that would have to be placed upon the buyers and sellers, making ebay unlikely to survive. Unlike him, I do have better things to do with my time. I have a radio meet to get ready for, just 3 days away. I need to get the newly purchased window air conditioner installed. I need to get a bunch of minor problems on my '67 Dodge Coronet taken care of, so I can sell it. I'm also in the process of moving from the upstairs bedroom and office to the lower level, to make things easier with my arthritis. All this while dealing with several nagging health problems that make lifting and carrying objects painful. And damn it, the lawn again needs mowing.

So continue tilting at windmills Peter. Maybe someday you will run the world, and get things your way. But some of us will just have to be content to live in the world that is here, and follow the rules already in place, unless they are truly worthy of being challenged.


(nodding and winking)

.

Well I don't rule the Ebay world.. I was just trying to come up with an interesting model that might solve problems.. who knows it's simply just one maybe helpful idea ... relax.. lol

Jim you complain you have no time for all this... but you sure took plenty of your "no time" time to write this extremely lengthy and time consuming reply... no??
Thanks for your feed back.

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 5:20 am 
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Location: Mission Viejo, southern California
Just be glad you are not that seller!

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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 5:43 am 
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Joined: Sep Fri 07, 2007 2:27 am
Posts: 6168
Location: Grand Chute, Wisconsin
Pbpix wrote:
Jim you complain you have no time for all this... but you sure took plenty of your "no time" time to write this extremely lengthy and time consuming reply... no??
Yes, I did. Looking back at the time it was posted compared to the time of my previous post, it looks like it took all of 5 minutes.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Feb Thu 08, 2007 2:32 pm
Posts: 12539
Location: 06457
OMG, let it die. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Apr Sun 23, 2017 11:22 pm
Posts: 469
Location: 44035 (Near Cleveland Ohio)
There's a chain around here called Ollie's that sells distressed name brand clothing - including Wrangler - for less than half price. I once saw a woman filling a large shopping cart with jeans, a half dozen each of several different sizes. They were on sale for $8.95 . All had the Wrangler tags. It was pretty obvious what her intentions were . . .

I used to shop at thrift stores for flannel shirts. I wear a 2XLT, and it's hard to find anything in that size that doesn't cost a fortune. In the last couple years, however, anything wearable is gone the minute it's put out. Last summer, I arrived at a Goodwill store a few minutes after they opened. A woman was already standing at the checkout with a CARTFUL of flannel shirts. I suspect a "friendly" employee set them aside for her. All different sizes, too. Those $3 shirts end up on EBay for $15 - 20, sometimes more.

Peter, FWIW, I've bought directly from Wrangler's website, where I can easily find the exact model and size I need, at a competitive price, with no hassle or drama. You might want to investigate.

Dan


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 7:47 pm 
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Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
SparkyDan wrote:

Peter, FWIW, I've bought directly from Wrangler's website, where I can easily find the exact model and size I need, at a competitive price, with no hassle or drama. You might want to investigate.

Dan

Yep ... me too. I almost always get jeans directly from Wrangler.
Also locally ...I just posted the Kmart $25 price just up the street.

... maybe I momentarily forgot or lost my mind... not surprised... lol

Sometimes I'm just shopping around Ebay and irrationally buy up some stuff all at once ... often just because I was looking for one thing then that led to the next etc.

_________________
To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


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 Post subject: Re: Why are some Ebay sellers total lunatics?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1848
Location: Townsend, Ma.
To answer your original question - Why are Ebay sellers total lunatics?
Because we are all on the dumbing down train and cannot get off.


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