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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 04, 2015 10:22 pm 
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Posts: 972
Brett_Buck wrote:
Artcurus wrote:
In relation to the original post
Quote:
It can't, and record fidelity barely reaches the level of acceptable from a technical standpoint with far, far better equipment than this turntable. In this case the relatively high tracking force and very questionable tonearm limits you to very low end cartridge. The fact that any microgroove stereo record works as well as it does is actually quite amazing considering what is really going on.


That's a Voice of Music changer with a "floating" cartridge, it tracks at about a gram, and in fact, tracks better than many low end turntables with magnetic carts.


Uh, OK, if you think the turntable out of a brown coffin console is a good hi-fi part, then there's really not much more to discuss. We are talking about two utterly different things. There are plenty of places to learn about high fidelity principles and equipment, might want to avail yourself of them.

Brett


I never said that Voice of Music was a true "audiophile" turntable. I was pointing out that the tracking force was much less what you stated and it is true they track better than some low end phonos with magnetic carts.

Some of those "brown coffin" stereos used well known Hi Fi component changers, Stromberg Carlson used Garrard with mag carts (RC88 I think). Packard Bell occasionally used Glaser Steers. As to your other statements, Stromberg Carlson actually used sealed enclosure speakers which could be used as complete stand alone aside from the cabinet. Top of the line Magnavox did the same thing, sealing the speakers into a stand alone unit.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 05, 2015 12:11 am 
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Don't forget brands like Fisher and Ampex who made some very high end consoles.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 05, 2015 1:58 am 
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Tube Radio wrote:
Don't forget brands like Fisher and Ampex who made some very high end consoles.

Thanks TR,

In fact, I've heard that those high end consoles could outperform much of the component level available at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 05, 2015 4:16 am 
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Location: Boston, MA USA
Artcurus wrote:
Tube Radio wrote:
Don't forget brands like Fisher and Ampex who made some very high end consoles.

Thanks TR,

In fact, I've heard that those high end consoles could outperform much of the component level available at the time.

They couldn't outperform components because they *were* components, installed in a good quality cabinet and sold at a high price. But most would not consider Fisher and Ampex consoles in the same category as Zenith, RCA, or Magnavox.

-David


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 05, 2015 11:31 am 
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I would maybe consider Zenith's, RCA's and Magnavox's top of the line consoles to be in the same league as Fisher and Ampex.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 05, 2015 12:11 pm 
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Location: Minnesota
I wouldn't, other than a Maggie Concert Grand, but that's it.

Fisher, HH Scott, Stromberg Carlson, Ampex, and Pilot (unless I forgot someone) made consoles using gear that was very similar to, or actually was, the same as their component line. You really can't beat a top end Fisher console from the early/mid sixties. That was as good as it ever got.

There were a couple of exceptions, Claritone from Canada, and even Westinghouse made some very high end consoles, but they are pretty rare.

Zenith and RCA made some very good consoles but they were not quite up to the level of the others listed above, even the top line ones. Nothing wrong with them, just not the very best out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 05, 2015 4:47 pm 
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+1 to ggregg's last post. I will put my 1961 Pilot console up against any comparable component system of that day. But, as ggregg says, that is because it IS a component system, installed into a cabinet with top-of-the-line sealed speaker enclosures. The same Pilot 402 integrated tuner/amp (with separate MPX unit) contained in my console was also available for separate sale (at $298.50 in 1961). The original 402 manual includes a fold-out template for constructing and mounting the tuner/amp into a custom cabinet, which exactly matches the cutout and enclosure in the console. The complete console 1A402 had a list price of $695.00, which of course also included the Garrard changer inside (which was also offered for separate sale at $67.50). In fact, I have an original Pilot price list (effective 7/1/1961) which refers to their consoles as "Stereophonic Component-Consoles".

EDIT: To those of us (myself included) who have made the last few posts regarding high-end consoles of the early-mid 1960's, I think maybe this thread is getting "stale" by being overly long, and we are also wandering off-topic from the OP's subject. Perhaps one of us should start a new thread on this topic here in the Vintage Audio Equipment section of the forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 06, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Location: Gainesville, Florida
:|


Last edited by tubeAMP on Feb Sun 26, 2017 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Aug Sun 30, 2015 10:02 pm 
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Everyone

Firstly thank you for the information and the opinions. I have read them all and spent the last couple months thinking about what the unit represents to me and what I want from it, and to be brutally honest I am going to go with my original intention.

Ignoring the fact I used paint and not photoshop lol, I have attached a picture of that I intend to do. I'm going to insert stained wood where the controls and record player are, then on the left i will attach brackets to the frame to hold the amplifier in place. I'm a computer geek and have a old spare PC kicking around that I will put inside the unit and even though the image has a keyboard an mouse if i can get a good deal on one, i'll install a full touch screen unit.

If anyone one is interested and i don't get blasted for this, I will post the pictures when I'm done. It will be a few months as it will be a winter project.

Attachment:
zenith mockup.jpg
zenith mockup.jpg [ 82.9 KiB | Viewed 3434 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Aug Sun 30, 2015 10:25 pm 
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Why not figure a way to incorporate the computer with the original electronics?

You could remove the record changer and store it somewhere then make a mount for a touch screen monitor that fits where the record changer was and uses existing holes to secure it to the console. The phono input can be used for the computer's audio.

That way you can restore the console to original very easily If so desired.

Either way it's your console to do with as you wish, but if you do gut the original electronics you might either find another use for them, offer them for sale locally or on the classifieds here.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Aug Mon 31, 2015 2:46 pm 
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To be honest I don't think the parts are worth keeping and or shipping somewhere and if I upgrade it with new parts why would I want to restore the old broken ones?

This thing was a great system in the day, it will be great again when I'm done.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Aug Mon 31, 2015 3:49 pm 
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What I meant was keeping the original tuner and amp and integrating the computer with that.

Also I'm sure there is someone somewhere who would want the original electronics.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Sep Tue 01, 2015 4:52 pm 
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Unless someone offers me a decent price for the internal parts, they are all going in the trash. Sorry, not interested in selling them really.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Sep Tue 01, 2015 5:25 pm 
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What would be a decent price to you?

Why not at least offer them on the classifieds here for a week and see if anyone is interested.

Replacing the electronics is fine if it suits you better, but it isn't a good idea to just throw quality electronics in the trash as someone could need parts from the electronics to restore their console that they could not find anywhere else except another console.

Unless you plan on also replacing the speakers I'd suggest using the original electronics as the speakers were designed to work with them and may not sound good with new electronics or may not be able to handle the power a new amp puts out.

Replacing the speakers is not necessarily a simple thing unless you have had experience replacing speakers before.

The electronics could always be re-purposed for something else. Put them in a wood box and use a couple external speakers or add a couple internal speakers. Would make a decent bedroom system, garage system, semi-portable system for when doing outside work ETC...

Ultimately whatever you decide to do is your choice.

Not trying to bash you for gutting the console. Just giving some ideas as to how the original electronics could be saved or re-purposed.

In all honesty I'd be tempted to do the same thing if it were my console and the original electronics didn't suit my needs, but I would try to do it in such a way that it could be put back original if so desired or if a future owner decided to put it back original.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Sep Tue 01, 2015 9:37 pm 
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I don't have an answer as I don't know what these parts are worth. And if I have no idea of value I can't sell them. So no point of putting them on for sale.

I don't think 1970s tubes and even a few touch sensors would qualify as quality electronics. Yes in 73 these were high end and amazing, the fact it even has a tape player was a big deal. When I'm done I have no intention of having anything in there that isn't modern. So maybe when I'm done I'll see what's left. There aren't many of these units so who knows.

As for the speakers, that's no issue. Theoretically I should calculate the volume of space and all the rest of it, but I'll probably buy something more designed for the amp and re-enforce the insides to hold the heavier speaker.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Sep Tue 01, 2015 10:21 pm 
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Not sure how to answer you about quality other than that the older electronics were usually of better quality than a lot of new stuff.

The quality I'm talking about is build quality which determines how long a device will last without needing to be repaired or replaced.

Many will tell you that speaker design is more complicated than sticking a driver in an existing box unless of course you get lucky and just so happen to get the right driver.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Sep Wed 02, 2015 5:14 pm 
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True, about the speakers and drivers but I have a few ideas in my head that I'm sure I can figure it all out. Besides I enjoy doing things like this, but rarely get the chance.

Though I do wish more people had these units, just so I can see if anyone has ever done anything like what I want to do see if there were any tricks. Oh well half the fun is not knowing.

And I won't argue about older stuff sometimes being better quality. I have an old am/fm radio tuner a guy gave me when I was a teenager and his exact words were "I hear you like to play with electronics. This radio don't work anymore, fix it and it's yours". One Fuze later I had a working am/fm tuner from the 70s that still sounds better than most new stuff. But I honestly think the electronics in in my unit have lived their life, quality or not.

Either way I'm going to have fun with this unit.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Sep Wed 02, 2015 5:39 pm 
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Location: Charleston, W.Va.
talamakara wrote:
I don't have an answer as I don't know what these parts are worth. And if I have no idea of value I can't sell them. So no point of putting them on for sale.

As already mentioned, there is a good possibility that someone here in the forum might want these components, or at least some of them, for parts which may be difficult or impossible to find except from a "donor" set. And surely the record changer and speakers would have some value. It would be a shame to see them go to the dump when someone could use them, and be willing to pay for them as well.

As for what they might be worth, I don't know either or I would offer you an opinion. Perhaps others here might be able to do so. For the electronics probably not a whole lot, but I would think that if the alternative is the dump then anything obtained above shipping costs would be a net gain. Plus it might help someone else. As for the record changer and speakers, you could probably get some idea by looking at eBay or other venues.

Rules of the Classified section of the ARF require an asking price to be stated. But I have also seen many which include "or best offer" so I assume that is allowed.

As a last resort, if you don't want to go to the trouble of even attempting to sell them or packing them up for shipment, why not offer them for free, local pickup only? If someone accepts this would save you having to take them to the dump or haul them to the curb, keep them out of the landfill, and most importantly could help someone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Sep Fri 04, 2015 4:05 am 
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This is the last chance. I've read everything you guys have said and how everyone wants me to keep it as is. So if you want to buy it, offer me a decent price and come get it.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=283543


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith Solid State...?
PostPosted: Sep Fri 04, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Posts: 4866
Location: Gainesville, Florida
check into the classified section with best offer sale :|


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