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 Post subject: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Fri 15, 2019 1:58 am 
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Hey guy's, been a little while. No, I'm not ready to completely finish it yet... I'd bring back the "restoration" thread if that were the case.

No, this is about the bulbs for the dial. My Lafayette LR-1500T keeps going through these things like there's no tomorrow. It uses bulbs that look like the old standard #44 or #47. Doesn't matter which I use. They only last a month or few and then I notice one side of the face is dark. Next thing I know, it's not lighting up at all. I have been using the stereo ALOT, but I don't think it's anywhere near the 1000 hours that the bulbs are rated for.


Anyone know what kind I should be using in the Lafayette LR 1500T? Operators manual does not show bulb types, nor does any of the schematics I have. I have read somewhere (don't remember where) that stated that the bulbs see 8 volts. That would explain the shortened life for me, BUT! What bulbs in that size can handle 8 volts? Google sure isnt helping me!


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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Fri 15, 2019 2:18 am 
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Location: Wausau, WI
I found this on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/volt-300ma-Bayon ... B01FMJQVEW" -="window.open(this.href);return false;" -="window.open(this.href);return false;" -="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheaper here. http://www.vintage-electronics.net/bayo ... 300ma.aspx" -="window.open(this.href);return false;

LED http://www.vintage-electronics.net/ledb ... 8volt.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Fri 15, 2019 5:26 am 
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ZackN920 wrote:
Hey guy's, been a little while. No, I'm not ready to completely finish it yet... I'd bring back the "restoration" thread if that were the case.

No, this is about the bulbs for the dial. My Lafayette LR-1500T keeps going through these things like there's no tomorrow. It uses bulbs that look like the old standard #44 or #47. Doesn't matter which I use. They only last a month or few and then I notice one side of the face is dark. Next thing I know, it's not lighting up at all. I have been using the stereo ALOT, but I don't think it's anywhere near the 1000 hours that the bulbs are rated for.


Anyone know what kind I should be using in the Lafayette LR 1500T? Operators manual does not show bulb types, nor does any of the schematics I have. I have read somewhere (don't remember where) that stated that the bulbs see 8 volts. That would explain the shortened life for me, BUT! What bulbs in that size can handle 8 volts? Google sure isnt helping me!


They're 8 volt bulbs.
This will work fine: http://www.vintage-electronics.net/bayo ... 300ma.aspx" -="window.open(this.href);return false;" -="window.open(this.href);return false;" -="window.open(this.href);return false;
You need the bulb with the longer glass top to completely light the dial.
Be careful. After 50 years, the printing on the glass will easily flake off or if you use water or anything stronger to clean the glass on the print side, you run the good risk of wiping it off and/or smearing the print all over the place.

Image
You could use typical #47 bulb but you would need to add a dropping resistor, or some other component to drop the voltage by at least 2 volts to make the bulb last. (depends on how much work you want to put into lamp modification)

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Sat 16, 2019 4:28 am 
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Thanks guys. I honestly feel kind of dumb for having to ask about this.

So, they are 8 volt. Good to know.

Longer glass top bulb? hmm. I think the originals (that I found in it when I got the receiver) looked exactly the same as 44/47. Probably been replaced before I had gotten it though.

I've changed bulbs out 3 to 4 times now, as of last night. Never had a need to touch the dial glass. I cleaned that during the re-cap process. Just vacuumed the dust out and lightly wiped the glass with a soft cloth. It looks sharp... when it's lit up!


I thought about doing that (dropping resistor). The regular bulbs are a heck of a lot cheaper than the 8 volt versions! I don't think I have any suitable resistors in stock though.


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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Sat 16, 2019 9:55 pm 
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What I call short and long glass lamps. Unfortunately picture comparison scale is not the same.

ImageImage

The lamps should also have a shroud with a cutout directing the light into the side of the dial glass.

If you're going to diddle with the final amplifier stages, make sure the static idling current for each channel is 30 ma. Over time the components (we're talking roughly 50 years now) age causing values to change and the various pot adjustments in the amplifier board were very cheaply made and most by now are either very poor or almost dead.

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Mon 18, 2019 3:03 am 
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Try an LED.

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Tue 19, 2019 2:43 am 
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Hi Zack,
If you want to keep things original, try using NOS bulbs made in the USA by quality manufacturers such as GE, Tung-Sol, Chicago Miniature, etc. They are of better quality and will last far longer than the no-name modern versions, most of which are made in China or other Far-Eastern countries and are of dubious quality.

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Tue 19, 2019 4:09 am 
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To be honest I haven't seen any of them "short lamp" bulbs available anywhere. I've only ever seen them in some antique radios that I pick up. If they still work I leave them in, but if they don't those radios get a standard "longer lamp" bulb to replace it.

Yup, the Lafayette still has the shrouds for the bulbs. I put them back on, like always :wink:

Nope, no diddling right now. Last I checked, both channels were still at a solid 32ma. If I ever get back to it to change some of the noisy transistors, I'll change out the adjustment pot's too. I remember you and other's saying that the originals are troublesome. To tell ya the truth though, back when I was working on this receiver I actually didn't have much of a problem with them. They still did the job, but they sure are sensitive to just a little movement. Took lots of trial and error to get it set exact.



I don't have any LED's on hand that would work without modification. and the ones that I've got were harvested from parted modern equipment.



Hi Poston,
I would love to use some originals, but I have no clue what part # to look up for 8 watt bulbs of this size. Even the links that rro61889 gave me don't have a part #. They're just labeled as "8 volt bayonet lamp".


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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Tue 19, 2019 4:46 am 
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ZackN920 wrote:
Hi Poston,
I would love to use some originals, but I have no clue what part # to look up for 8 watt bulbs of this size. Even the links that rro61889 gave me don't have a part #. They're just labeled as "8 volt bayonet lamp".

Zack,
Check out some of the older published specs for dial lamps, such as the following:
https://www.radioremembered.org/lamps.htm
You will note that many of these did not have specific voltage ratings such as 6.3v for example, but rather were specified at 6-8v or 6-9v. Thus there was considerable leeway in voltage rating of bulbs, which varied by manufacturer. This was the reason I suggested you look for some NOS USA-made lamps as replacements, and see how they work out for you.

I am not familiar with your particular Lafayette amp, but from what you have said it seems that a #47 might be the ideal replacement. Even better, the #1847 which was marketed as the "long-life" version of the #47.

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Tue 19, 2019 5:12 am 
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Poston Drake wrote:
ZackN920 wrote:
Hi Poston,
I would love to use some originals, but I have no clue what part # to look up for 8 watt bulbs of this size. Even the links that rro61889 gave me don't have a part #. They're just labeled as "8 volt bayonet lamp".

Zack,
Check out some of the older published specs for dial lamps, such as the following:
https://www.radioremembered.org/lamps.htm" -="window.open(this.href);return false;
You will note that many of these did not have specific voltage ratings such as 6.3v for example, but rather were specified at 6-8v or 6-9v. Thus there was considerable leeway in voltage rating of bulbs, which varied by manufacturer. This was the reason I suggested you look for some NOS USA-made lamps as replacements, and see how they work out for you.

I am not familiar with your particular Lafayette amp, but from what you have said it seems that a #47 might be the ideal replacement. Even better, the #1847 which was marketed as the "long-life" version of the #47.

As designed, the receiver requires 8 volt bulbs. The transformer winding is that voltage. If you use #47 or #1847 or any roughly 6 ~ volt bulb, you will burn them out very quickly. I believe all this has already been mentioned.
Now, for some applications where an 8 volt bulb is used, and high brightness is not required, you sometimes can get away with using a 12 volt bulb. All the 8 volt bulbs that I use to buy at Parts Express and MCM all came from the Far East.

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Tue 19, 2019 5:16 am 
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ZackN920 wrote:
To be honest I haven't seen any of them "short lamp" bulbs available anywhere. I've only ever seen them in some antique radios that I pick up. If they still work I leave them in, but if they don't those radios get a standard "longer lamp" bulb to replace it.
Hi Poston,
I would love to use some originals, but I have no clue what part # to look up for 8 watt bulbs of this size. Even the links that rro61889 gave me don't have a part #. They're just labeled as "8 volt bayonet lamp".


Bayonet bulbs is what the Lafayette used. The link I provided for the 8 volt bulbs will work fine.

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Tue 19, 2019 5:21 am 
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My Stereo (Maranz) uses 8 volt ac bulbs, so I bought some LED replacements that are already in the lamp style base.
Just haven't installed them Yet :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Tue 19, 2019 5:42 am 
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Hey Poston, thanks for that link. It's going into my "favorites" list.
Interesting information, most places that sell them bulbs (modern variants) only list them at 6.3 volts. I didn't know that they were originally variable to a certain degree.

Here is a pic of my LR-1500T the day I bought it.
EDIT-picture has been here long enough.
It looks much better now. After cleaning I helped the old wooden case out a bit. Look's great now that it's been "rehydrated" with Howard's wax and feed. Too bad I can't see much of it since I put it in the cabinet where it sits now being used almost, if not everyday for listening to 8 tracks and LP's. Occasional radio play and cassettes as well. 8)




Manualman,
hmm. Not only has it been mentioned but it has been experienced... Around 4 times now iirc. :?
So, how long did the 8 volt bulbs last on average (that have come from the "far east")? Anywhere near their life expectancy rating? These 44/47's I keep feeding it sure aren't lasting anywhere near the 1K hours they are rated for! :lol: Probably only getting like a 100 hours or so, if im lucky!

Good, i'll pick some up. They sure are more expensive though, but if they last-they are worth it!


Last edited by ZackN920 on Mar Thu 21, 2019 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Tue 19, 2019 7:52 pm 
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ZackN920 wrote:
Hey Poston, thanks for that link. It's going into my "favorites" list.
Interesting information, most places that sell them bulbs (modern variants) only list them at 6.3 volts. I didn't know that they were originally variable to a certain degree.

Manualman,
hmm. Not only has it been mentioned but it has been experienced... Around 4 times now iirc. :?
So, how long did the 8 volt bulbs last on average (that have come from the "far east")? Anywhere near their life expectancy rating? These 44/47's I keep feeding it sure aren't lasting anywhere near the 1K hours they are rated for! :lol: Probably only getting like a 100 hours or so, if im lucky!

Good, i'll pick some up. They sure are more expensive though, but if they last-they are worth it!


Back in the 90's, I was picking up Lafayette Hi-FI receivers at various flea markets, yard sales, for cheap. Clean them up, repair them, since I had tons of Lafayette parts, and resold them. Many of the 8 volt Japanese bulbs in bayonet base and fuse type were still functional after 25 years as far as I could tell.
As far as that lamp chart, a rating of 6-9 volts for a certain code doesn't tell you the derating value at a certain voltage. At 6 volts if could be 500 hours and at 9 volts could be 50 hours. Unless you want to keep popping in #47's on a regular basis, get the bulb designed specifically for the voltage that will be applied to it.

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Wed 20, 2019 1:31 am 
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Location: Boston, MA USA
The 6 volt lamps are rated at 6-8 volts because they were originally intended to be used in automobiles with 6-volt electrical systems. With the engine running and generator charging the operating voltage would be about 7.2V. 6.3V is the nominal voltage of a 6 volt lead-acid storage battery -- three cells of 2.1V each.

-David


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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Wed 20, 2019 10:51 pm 
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What about using a #51 bulb? These were used by RCA in some of their consoles, and they look to be rated for 7.5V.


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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Thu 21, 2019 6:23 pm 
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Manualman- they must have been common in your area.(should of been :lol: I think in my restoration thread you told me that you sold this equipment when it was new!) I rarely-if ever, see Lafayette stuff around here. My receiver and tape deck just popped up one week at the local auction house.

dberman51- that makes sense.

classicelectronicsguy- I looked them up to see what is available and it appears that they are strictly the smaller round glass lamps. I didn't find any that had the taller glass.



I haven't picked up bulbs yet. I'm cheap so I always snoop around for awhile to see where I can get the best overall price for the same exact product.
1 thing I was wondering though. rro61889 linked a LED 8v bayonet "lamp" sold by the same company as the standard 8v 300ma bulb that's been linked in this thread. They are available for the same price. I honestly have never thought much on using LED. I have never been thrilled with the alternative modern forms of household lighting these days. Colors are always off and whatnot. Also have issues with them never lasting anywhere near as long as the package always claims. and When used for blinking-on/off purposes, the lights look so unnatural. To me incandescent have a "charm" that LED totally lacks.
Since lights don't blink in a stereo receiver maybe I could try this junk out... How are the mini bulbs like these? Are the colors matched to standard incandescent? What's the lifespan? How about electrical usage? I know they are supposed to be less, but does that necessitate circuit changes in the stereo equipment?
I don't want messed up or slightly"off" colors on my dial. I also don't want to ever have to change them again if I were to use led. I also don't want to burn out the lighting circuit because of them not having enough "electrical pull". (standard bulbs look to be 300ma, what are the led?)

I'm just curious on this stuff, I'm always going to lean towards standard bulbs though.


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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Thu 21, 2019 6:59 pm 
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Location: Charleston, W.Va.
Zack,
Have you checked out this source? https://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/l ... ber18.html

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 Post subject: Re: What kind of bulbs should I be using in the Lafayette?
PostPosted: Mar Sun 24, 2019 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Canton,Ohio.United States
Hi Zack
I read from an earlier post that there are shrouds over the bulbs? Maybe they aren't the same as I have in an espey tuner, but, if they are metal, and fit over the bulb with that cutout as was described, that will shorten the life of the bulbs tremendously. I know they have to be there, but I noticed the bulbs are extremely hot with the shroud. Much cooler with them off. Of course, they have to be on. But my lights go out sooner on that compared unit compared to anything else.
i would do what some previous posters suggested. A drop down resistor, maybe a 2 watt 5 ohm with the 1847 lamp. It may not cut the brightness down at that resistance, but what it does do is slow the surge down some when it is turned on. Just a suggestion.

John


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