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 Post subject: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Sun 22, 2019 5:37 am 
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Joined: Dec Sun 21, 2014 5:03 am
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Location: Traverse City, MI 49684
I've had a Phillips CDR 560 CD player/recorder for 18 years. In the last few years it has been pickier and pickier about which blank CDR-Music discs it will accept. When we got to about 1 in 10, I began to wonder if the machine were the problem, not the disc quality. So I bought a new recorder, a Tascam. I popped in a blank disc that the Phillips had rejected and the Tascam gave it full approval.

The Phillips still plays CDs but it would be nice to have it as a backup recorder. Is it possible that the laser lens is dirty? And if yes, it's possible, how do you clean the damned thing? I popped the top tonight and can't even see where the laser mechanism is. I'm nervous about removing the transport mechanism without a manual, having damaged a ribbon cable on one before.

Long ago they had some sort of disc that purported to clean the lens. Seems like it was fuzzy, a sort of spinning brush. Is that an option? It looked like a poor substitute for real cleaning back then.

By the way, I took the AAA batteries out of the remote control for storage and tested them first. They are Phillips cells, so probably original, and they tested way up in the "good" end on the little battery tester. I wish the machine lasted as long as the disposable batteries....

Chris Campbell


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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Sun 22, 2019 3:32 pm 
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Location: NJ 08090
Best way is take the cover off the unit and try to blow out the dust. If you can get to the lens...try a q-tip gently to remove ant scum/film. Never trusted those cleaning gimmicky things. If it still doesn't work...?


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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Sun 22, 2019 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Dec Sun 21, 2014 5:03 am
Posts: 456
Location: Traverse City, MI 49684
The problem is I can't even see the laser tracking mechanism, much less get at it to clean. The disc transport has got at least one big ribbon cable with those tiny white plastic connectors at the end. Those things always make me nervous. Then there are a couple other smaller cables to invite disaster from the fumble-fingered.

I was hoping maybe somebody had tackled one of these before. It's interesting to reflect that when the subject is a 1930s radio, there are usually quite a few others with experience to share. When we get into the current age, nothing is really repairable anymore and there is no experience to share even though there are a lot more devices of the kind.

Chris Campbell


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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Sun 22, 2019 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Sep Tue 15, 2015 1:16 am
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Location: 18424 PA
Have one of these though i don't remember the model. I know you had to buy "music" blanks as the royalty was paid. Probably 20 years since i used it, so therefore i am of no help. Clean the lens as was said, if possible. But 1 thing i do remember, Phillips and a few others are master of letting the laser die after a certain amount of time, they had the consumer time limit on their products down to a science.


Last edited by n3uvt on Dec Sun 22, 2019 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Sun 22, 2019 5:14 pm 
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Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
I actually had pretty good success with cleaning disks, if they were of the higher quality type. In this, you definitely get what you pay for.

A Q tip can work IF you can get to the laser assembly, and IF you don't cause a misalignment by pressing on something with a Q tip or anything else for that matter. They are kind of touchy that way, and if you knock it out of alignment it's game over usually. Specialized equipment was needed to properly align those.

Yes as well to the planned obsolescence of those things... they will eventually fail, although many have been known to go on for a long long time. I depends way more on hours of use, than chronological age.

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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Sun 22, 2019 6:26 pm 
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Cleaning the lens is the first thing to try. It shouldn't be too hard to get to, but it will require some disassembly. Usually there's a cover plate over the mechanism that can be removed easily.

Other things on the list of possibilities are cleaning and lubricating the rails that the pickup slides on, and at 18 years old, bad capacitors are a possibility. Surface mount electrolytics are always suspect.

If that doesn't help, then a bad laser is likely. It may be running out of power except on the few discs that need less power than others. The first step in the burning process is to calibrate the laser power on a special section of the disc. If it doesn't succeed it will abort the process.

Try to find the service manual as it will probably have some good information on disassembly and troubleshooting. There may be a way to access and decode error codes to tell you what exactly is causing it to fail.


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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Sun 22, 2019 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Dec Sun 21, 2014 5:03 am
Posts: 456
Location: Traverse City, MI 49684
ac wrote:
If that doesn't help, then a bad laser is likely. It may be running out of power except on the few discs that need less power than others. The first step in the burning process is to calibrate the laser power on a special section of the disc. If it doesn't succeed it will abort the process.


I'll bet that's it. The recording process always starts with "OPC" Phillips never explained what that meant but the new Tascam's manual explains that it means "Optimum Power Control." I was thinking that a dirty laser might be affecting that calculation. Or it could just be dying. In any event, it still plays and is useful in that mode.

Chris Campbell


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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Mon 23, 2019 12:21 am 
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Joined: Jun Fri 15, 2012 2:22 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Wausau, WI 54403
I have 3 different Philips CD recorders and all 3 are very fussy on the brand of disc that will work. I have had the best luck using Maxell discs. Check this link.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000 ... UTF8&psc=1


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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Mon 23, 2019 12:39 am 
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Location: Urbana, Illinois
On nearly all vintage Philips and Magnavox CD players there is a small electrolytic that dries out and develops high ESR. It causes symptoms quite like a faulty laser optical pickup: Some disks play, others fail to initialize.

The player may work better if left switched on all the time.

Replacing the capacitor is usually a permanent repair.

I don’t always do wholesale recapping on vintage audio gear, but I do check the ESR of the really tiny electrolytics: 1uF, 2.2uF, 4.7uF, 10uF. These caps are so small that they only hold one drop of electrolyte. If it dries out...

Search for “philips CDM-4 issues” and you will probably find links that tell which capacitor to replace, although this may apply to “playback only” machines, not to CD recorders.

For units like yours that can record, there may be additional electrolytic capacitors that need to have their ESR checked. Machines that record contain larger and more complicated power supply sections than units which are playback only.

-EB

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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Mon 23, 2019 1:21 am 
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electricboyo wrote:

I don’t always do wholesale recapping on vintage audio gear, but I do check the ESR of the really tiny electrolytics: 1uF, 2.2uF, 4.7uF, 10uF. These caps are so small that they only hold one drop of electrolyte. If it dries out...


Exactly! This is a big problem even with 25-30 year old machines. Unless they are defective, the (low-voltage) power supply caps usually last and last, and can be way off and cause no serious issues. The small-signal caps quit in pretty short order and any of this age or older should be considered suspect. Note also that in many applications, they are coupling caps with *no bias voltage*, meaning they are swinging small voltages either side of zero. This is OK because you are taking a 25v of 50V cap and putting only a few tenths of a volt across them backwards, but it also doesn't do anything to encourage the formation of the oxide layer, which just slowly dissipates over time. IT makes sense to replace these with non-polar caps. I usually redo them as they show, then, put a scope on it to see if it ever swings past zero, if so, replace them with a non-polar cap.

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Mon 23, 2019 7:28 am 
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Brett_Buck wrote:
electricboyo wrote:

I don’t always do wholesale recapping on vintage audio gear, but I do check the ESR of the really tiny electrolytics: 1uF, 2.2uF, 4.7uF, 10uF. These caps are so small that they only hold one drop of electrolyte. If it dries out...
Exactly! This is a big problem even with 25-30 year old machines.

Unless they are defective, the (low-voltage) power supply caps usually last and last, and can be way off and cause no serious issues.

The small-signal caps quit in pretty short order and any of this age or older should be considered suspect. Note also that in many applications, they are coupling caps with *no bias voltage*, meaning they are swinging small voltages either side of zero. It makes sense to replace these with non-polar caps.

Brett
I can confirm this from direct experience. The biggest offenders are found in audio gear of post-1975 vintage. That’s when opamps operating on +/-15V power supplies became the standard. The opamp outout is usually within 50mV of 0V.

Since 1970 almost every solid-state power amplifier stage is essentially just a big opamp. The output signal that feeds the speaker can swing equally above and below ground. The output transistors are connected directly to the speaker. There is no DC voltage at the output that would need to be blocked by a huge output coupling capacitor.

But there are still two small coupling capacitors in a typical audio power amp: The input coupling capacitor and the feedback loop ground return capacitor.

The input coupling capacitor, often 10uF, has little or no DC voltage drop across it.

Likewise the feedback loop ground return capacitor, often 470uF, also has no DC voltage across it.

For both applications I prefer to use non-polar electrolytics that are rated to have high performance as audio coupling capacitors. In particular this requires vanishingly low nonlinear distortion. Suitable capacitors cost less than $2 each. A stereo power amplifier requires two such capacitors per channel. Four in total. So I often upgrade these four capacitors when I’m working on a stereo receiver or integrated amplifier.

-EB

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 Post subject: Re: Phillips CDR 560 issues
PostPosted: Dec Tue 24, 2019 1:46 am 
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Posts: 12094
Location: Ohio 45177
The DVD CD drive in this computer quit working with recordable discs. I got a DVD archive off ebay and it would not play. I thought they had sold me a dud. I was not aware of the issue till I recently tried to play a music disc I had made on my JVC recorder. No play. A factory CD worked fine. No record or playback of dash R discs. I thought maybe dirt. I cleaned out and blew dust out of the thing with the drawer open and cleaned the lens with Q tip and isop. Looked mint, but no help. Ended up spending 12 bucks on ebay for an identical replacement drive and it works with everything. If the lens is clean that it may be that the focus system is out of whack and can read easy alumanized factory product but not the less reflective recordables. There is maybe an adjustment or alignment but I would guess impractical for end users. Or maybe the laser diode can get weak?

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