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 Post subject: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: May Mon 25, 2020 2:05 am 
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Hello All,

I have a KLH 24 that has a built in phono—see photo. It’s vintage mid 60’s and works pretty good. Mainly, I’m using the phono function to feed into the main receiver— the outputs RCA plugs connected to the main receiver. (I don’t want to overload the main receiver if I use the KLH speaker output.) The FM tuner works great and gives a good clean signal—ironically better than my substitute/temporary more modern HK receiver. The KLH has a black mono and stereo switch and the tuner works fine in either position. I’m assuming that would be the case if another component was hooked up through the auxiliary selection too. However, when using the phono option, if left in the “stereo” mode, only one channel produces any music. But, if switched to mono while the phono is being used, both channels work fine. I’ve tried switching record needles and tried records... same status. I carefully touched/ tugged on the wires in the arm and so forth. No change. Remember, it is just the stereo function for the phono that is not working. I only have two record needles, is it possible that have a couple of bad needles? Or, is the problem is something else?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: May Mon 25, 2020 2:28 am 
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Location: Tucson, Arizona U.S.A.
When you switch to mono and both channels play, are you getting both channels (on the record) playing through both speakers (mono) or is only one channel on the record playing through both speakers (half stereo)?

Switching to mono is supposed to combine both channels to reduce noise. If your switch is doing this, the problem is in the wiring of the switch. If it is only playing one channel through both speakers, the problem is in the cartridge or the wiring in the tone arm.

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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: May Mon 25, 2020 3:37 am 
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Joined: Apr Tue 14, 2020 3:16 pm
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Jim--Thanks for your reply! When I switch to mono, it's sounds like both are channels are combined and playing through both speakers. The stereo/mono issues only comes about with the record player and the switch seems to be okay with the tuner being used--it's easy to hear the mono/stereo difference with the tuner. You brought up a good point about the tone arm...I'm wondering if there is a problem where the needle inserts into the cartridge... Maybe a just a loose wire, I hope... Definitely will have to wear the readers to see that and a good strong light :) Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: May Mon 25, 2020 11:14 am 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
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Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
A few very common problems with older stereo turntables are either the output cables, or a bad/dirty/oxidized contact in the head shell, if yours is removable as an assembly. By bad cables, that could be bad about anywhere; at the cartridge, at a junction point under the turntable, or the RCA cables themselves. Try plugging in one channel at a time while in either stereo or mono mode... use the SAME input. (L or R). IF one is good, and one is bad, it's something in the turntable.

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https://www.bbtvtestequipment.com


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: May Mon 25, 2020 12:12 pm 
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Thanks!!


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: May Tue 26, 2020 4:05 am 
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I've replaced the wires in my Empire tone arm twice. They break at the rear of the arm where it pivots.

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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Tue 02, 2020 12:00 pm 
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If the wires plug into the cartridge, swap the wires around so that the left channel is playing through the right channel and vice versa.

If the problem moves to the other channel you have a bad cartridge.

If the problem remains on the same channel you have a problem elsewheres.


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Wed 03, 2020 4:19 pm 
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Good idea... I’ve purchased a replacement cartridge and will try that route. I’ll have a to hold my breath, put my readers on and gently replace.


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Thu 04, 2020 2:59 am 
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Well, still somewhat of a mystery. I replaced the cartridge with one just like it. Tried different needles, wiggled wires in the tone arm, carefully checked the connections in the cartridge (the wires are soldered) and gently sprayed contact cleaner where the cartridge connects in the tone arm... But no luck. At least it’s still works as it did before in the mono mode and I didn’t worsen it :). I’ve checked the connections inside (an RCA type of connection—the tone arm wires are soldered in and look good. And to add to the mystery, the FM tuner plays fine in the stereo mode. Still scratching my head and thinking through.

Unless, the internal RCA connections need to be sprayed with contact spray? The photo gives an idea of what mean.


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Thu 04, 2020 12:23 pm 
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Take an ohm meter and measure each cartridge wire to the RCA jack for continuity.


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Thu 04, 2020 1:02 pm 
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Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Thu 04, 2020 1:54 pm 
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You're welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Fri 05, 2020 2:09 am 
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Okay, I unhooked the internal RCA connections from the phono (see photo as reference above). Then, I hooked up my iPhone to an RCA cord and ran Pandora through the amp as if it was connected to the phono...it played like it supposed to in the stereo mode. Now, with a replacement cartridge and good needle in place, as already mentioned, I think it boils down to the tiny wires that run between the cartridge to the internal RCA connections... More rooting out for another day...


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Fri 05, 2020 2:37 am 
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Location: Boston, MA USA
There may be a muting switch on the turntable to cut out the cartridge during a changing cycle. Check if there is one and if so, if it is working properly.

-David


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Fri 05, 2020 2:42 am 
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Good idea. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Fri 05, 2020 2:49 am 
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Could also be in the phono preamp section.


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Sun 07, 2020 11:04 pm 
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Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
If you switch the RCA outputs from the turntable into the preamp, and the problem follows the switch, then the preamp is good.

One other test you can try.... just take a fingertip, or a small metal screwdriver, and touch it to the cartridge connections. You should get a pretty loud hum out of each channel. Keep working down the line towards the preamp until you find out where the signal stops.. or starts... and you'll know where the "disconnect" is.

If you replaced the cartridge and needle already, it's probably not that. Guessing either the RCA cables themselves, or as someone mentioned, perhaps a muting switch in the turntable. Or anything else lol. Simple enough circuit, but a lot of places it can go wrong.

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Preserving the hist. of electronics, one boat anchor at a time! :)
https://www.bbtvtestequipment.com


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Sat 20, 2020 4:54 am 
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Well, as they say PTL... I think I got it fixed. As I write this I’m listening to a record in “living stereo” (boy, I’m dating myself...)

I had replaced the Pickering cartridge and even bought a replacement tone arm with the wiring harness with the full intention of pulling off the old tone arm, etc... But, before going down that road I wanted to try working with the original tone arm one more time, thinking about a previous comment about how the wires are twisted at times (thanks Jim Mueller for suggesting this idea). Lo and behold, I believe the wires were were crimped in the whatever that is called—see photos—were restricted somehow... After 55 years that can happen, based on the age of the unit itself... I took the wires off the holder-gizmo deal and that seemed to correct it.

Thanks everyone for your time and input. Now I can go listen to more records in “living stereo”. :D


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Last edited by MississippiKid on Jun Sat 20, 2020 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Sat 20, 2020 4:55 am 
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The original position of the wires...as seen in the photo...


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 Post subject: Re: KLH 24 Phono Question Mono/Stereo
PostPosted: Jun Sat 20, 2020 11:02 am 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 7313
Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
Chances are, if you remove that black insulator sleeve, you'll find a few of those wires have rubbed through their insulation, or possibly even gone "open" inside their insulation. Moving them has either cleared a short, or forced two broken ends back together.

These wires account for probably half the electrical turntable issues we see in the shop, being broken or shorted at one end or the other. Another high failure item is the RCA cables that exit the turntable and plug into your stereo system.

Of course just about every one of them has mechanical issues as well, mainly grease and oil that's turned to glue, and idler tires that have transformed from rubber into steel.

Glad it's fixed!

_________________
Preserving the hist. of electronics, one boat anchor at a time! :)
https://www.bbtvtestequipment.com


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