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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Fri 01, 2019 12:28 am 
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I strongly recommend against using roach clips or adult beverages while performing this procedure. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Fri 01, 2019 12:33 am 
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Location: Powell River BC Canada
One of my old bosses told an amusing story about a juke box service call.

It was the mechanism that holds 78s each on a slide which moves
over and the turntable rises and pushes the record up, and then rotates.

(I used to own one of those mechanisms, but can't remember much).

The guy tried to fix the problem, but after it broke half a dozen records,
he packed his tools up and left. :D

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Fri 01, 2019 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
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Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
"The guy tried to fix the problem, but after it broke half a dozen records,he packed his tools up and left. "

heh..... he gave up too soon. I know a few techs that would not have quit till they broke ALL of the records .... :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Fri 01, 2019 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Sep Thu 23, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 10900
Location: Powell River BC Canada
Barry H Bennett wrote:
"The guy tried to fix the problem, but after it broke half a dozen records,he packed his tools up and left. "

heh..... he gave up too soon. I know a few techs that would not have quit till they broke ALL of the records .... :twisted:


Now I'm laughing because that old boss was around in the bad old days of
Vancouver. The word speakeasy comes to mind. Establishments with owners
of scant humor.

We used to make color organs for juke boxes, and I remember one club,
that had sawdust as a floor. 1960s.

I remember that owner was murdered. By an electrician. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Fri 01, 2019 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Wasilla Alaska
You guys are way to much, this place is cool, I use roach clips for all of my projects, it's a third hand for me and I have a assortment. :D

My:
Jukebox works flawlessly.
Slot machine works flawlessly.


:mrgreen: Radio, still working on it, I will get it, one resistor, one capacitor, at a time. Failure is not in my vocabulary, I was trained to win at any means possible. So I will keep working on it.

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 12:05 am 
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Location: Wasilla Alaska
Another capacitor question.....

I have a brown capacitor looks like plastic.

.022 MFD +-20%
200 V.D.C.
240

Do I use the Orange Dips as replacement for these?????

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 2:33 am 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 6:38 pm
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Location: Wasilla Alaska
I guess they call them "brown bettys" weard names for a capacitor. So what is the replacement for these buggers?

The reason I'm inquiring is I'm using orange capacitors for replacements, and testing the different power area's in the chassis shows power. I'm just learning about power, and getting the education, figuring things out.

One that is not showing power is the 1L6 #7 the one we use for testing. I show zero on my meter, now I am doing this without the tubes plugged in, I read here on the forum not to install the 1L6 until I finished testing for 1.4 volts between 1 and 7 on the 1L6.

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 3:21 am 
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I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it matters too much about what kind of cap you use as long as it matches the value of the original.

The Zenith Trans-Oceanics are AC/DC radios. The tube filaments are wired in series, so if you remove a tube, none will work. So you really can't do any testing with a tube removed as you might with a transformer powered radio.

So when testing voltages, all the tubes must be in place. You can substitute the 1L6 with a 1R5 if you are concerned with damaging the 1L6.

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 3:42 am 
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Location: Wasilla Alaska
Ed Morris wrote:
I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it matters too much about what kind of cap you use as long as it matches the value of the original.

The Zenith Trans-Oceanics are AC/DC radios. The tube filaments are wired in series, so if you remove a tube, none will work. So you really can't do any testing with a tube removed as you might with a transformer powered radio.

So when testing voltages, all the tubes must be in place. You can substitute the 1L6 with a 1R5 if you are concerned with damaging the 1L6.


Boy, did I not read this thread correctly in the last posts, however, you enlightened me on the testing procedure. I'm still learning about this stuff.

So why did the manufacturer use different capacitors building the radios and not one capacitor like the bumblebees????

I know the mica, ceramic are different, but they also have different ones.

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 3:57 am 
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Again, I'm no expert, but I suspect Zenith used what was commonly available at the time. The 500 and 600 series Trans-Oceanics typically have Bumblebee type caps. You can replace them with most modern caps of the same value.

Although I often leave the Bumblebees in place and just replace the electrolytic caps when I am sort of lazy, when a Bumblebee decides to give up the ghost, it often goes off like a firecracker! I had one do that once, and my dog wouldn't come out from under the bed a week. I'm kind of exaggerating, but you get the point.

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 4:20 am 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 6:38 pm
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Location: Wasilla Alaska
Ed Morris wrote:
Again, I'm no expert, but I suspect Zenith used what was commonly available at the time. The 500 and 600 series Trans-Oceanics typically have Bumblebee type caps. You can replace them with most modern caps of the same value.

Although I often leave the Bumblebees in place and just replace the electrolytic caps when I am sort of lazy, when a Bumblebee decides to give up the ghost, it often goes off like a firecracker! I had one do that once, and my dog wouldn't come out from under the bed a week. I'm kind of exaggerating, but you get the point.


LOL

My black cat went completely catatonic when the 7.3 earthquake hit Alaska in November, she was in shock for a couple weeks. :D

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 4:39 am 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Wasilla Alaska
Thanks for your help, I'm learning a lot, since I'm a novice I have been checking and rechecking my work. I've been reading books, trying to get a good grasp of how the radio function.

Since this radio is going to be used for my "emergency disaster" preparedness I need a good working radio. I wanted a radio I can work on and the newer stuff is impossible to do anything with. Also the new stuff is junk compared to the quality of a Zenith tube radio. :D

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Another Young Frankenstein!


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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 5:03 am 
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Joined: Sep Thu 23, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 10900
Location: Powell River BC Canada
In the Zenith, the tube filaments are wired in series but not simple-series.
The exact filament voltages are influenced by the current drawn off them
by the plates and screens, which in turn are controlled by the grid voltages
referenced by to the filaments.

I think there is an article on this somewhere on the net.




Use probes insulated right up to about 1/8 inch of end.


If you short out something and blow out the #3V4 or 1S5 you
may hear the most delightful ping in the speaker. Once.

If you plug the radio in, turn it on, and remove a tube, then put it back in
the socket, tubes may blow when you put them back
Attachment:
Nifty price for a 1L6.jpg
Nifty price for a 1L6.jpg [ 70.13 KiB | Viewed 127 times ]
Attachment:
Zenith tube blowing capacitor.JPG
Zenith tube blowing capacitor.JPG [ 24.32 KiB | Viewed 127 times ]

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Amateur Radio Literacy Club. May we help you read better.
Steve Dow
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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Wasilla Alaska
radiotechnician wrote:
In the Zenith, the tube filaments are wired in series but not simple-series.
The exact filament voltages are influenced by the current drawn off them
by the plates and screens, which in turn are controlled by the grid voltages
referenced by to the filaments.

I think there is an article on this somewhere on the net.




Use probes insulated right up to about 1/8 inch of end.


If you short out something and blow out the #3V4 or 1S5 you
may hear the most delightful ping in the speaker. Once.

If you plug the radio in, turn it on, and remove a tube, then put it back in
the socket, tubes may blow when you put them back
Attachment:
Nifty price for a 1L6.jpg
Attachment:
Zenith tube blowing capacitor.JPG

:lol: :lol:

:mrgreen:
That's excellent information, I don't want to destroy my hard work by a FUBAR move.
I've found several NOS tubes that will work in the transoceanic chassis from my father-in-laws collection of vintage tubes. That makes perfect sense since he had a H500 with the tube numbers written on the chassis. That's the one that got to go to Korea during the early 1950's from a officer in the Army. He wrote his information inside the radio, name, rank, serial number, stuff like that.

I'm learning a lot, this information is invaluable, helping me to keep focused and get this radio going. I'm not rushing it, I'm going at a slow pace, checking my work, making sure I'm not missing anything.

Looks a whole lot more uniformed inside the chassis having the same; orange capacitors, green capacitors, dominos, ceramic, resistors, instead of the hodge podge of different stuff that's confusing, especially when this is going to be used in a emergency, and I can service it easier having the same uniformed conditions inside the chassis.

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sun 03, 2019 6:40 am 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 6:38 pm
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Location: Wasilla Alaska
I'm waiting for more parts in the mail, the chassis is uniformed with capacitors, resistors, ceramic capacitors, I'm trying to make it easier to work with, easily identifiable, since I'm still learning about this stuff, I need as much of an advantage I can get. an

:!:

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sun 03, 2019 8:30 am 
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Joined: Sep Thu 23, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 10900
Location: Powell River BC Canada
I think that you have a point about an emergency radio that is using simple
technology understood for at least 100 years. How many state-of-the art solid
state radios built over the past 70 years still have an ample stock of transistors
(not substitutes) that could be replaced if the thing was subject to a major
EMP incident.

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VE7ASO VE7ZSO
Amateur Radio Literacy Club. May we help you read better.
Steve Dow
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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sun 03, 2019 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Wasilla Alaska
radiotechnician wrote:
I think that you have a point about an emergency radio that is using simple
technology understood for at least 100 years. How many state-of-the art solid
state radios built over the past 70 years still have an ample stock of transistors
(not substitutes) that could be replaced if the thing was subject to a major
EMP incident.


Being born in 1960, I've seen the progression of electronics, to the point where everyone is dependent on them. I could take it or leave it, since I never had anything growing up.

I live in a basic lifestyle, true I have electronic stuff, however I don't need them like others that are solely dependent on electronics. I could live with or without them if the world took a dump and circled the drain. What better place to be when that happens? For me its Alaska, where it's still full of my survival needs. I'm going to be in the best place when the whole place goes to **deleted**. The difference between Alaska and Canada is firepower, the citizens here have a lot of firepower against anything that comes our way.

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Another Young Frankenstein!


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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sun 03, 2019 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Sep Thu 23, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 10900
Location: Powell River BC Canada
walz wrote:
radiotechnician wrote:
I think that you have a point about an emergency radio that is using simple
technology understood for at least 100 years. How many state-of-the art solid
state radios built over the past 70 years still have an ample stock of transistors
(not substitutes) that could be replaced if the thing was subject to a major
EMP incident.


Being born in 1960, I've seen the progression of electronics, to the point where everyone is dependent on them. I could take it or leave it, since I never had anything growing up.

I live in a basic lifestyle, true I have electronic stuff, however I don't need them like others that are solely dependent on electronics. I could live with or without them if the world took a dump and circled the drain. What better place to be when that happens? For me its Alaska, where it's still full of my survival needs. I'm going to be in the best place when the whole place goes to **deleted**. The difference between Alaska and Canada is firepower, the citizens here have a lot of firepower against anything that comes our way.


Maybe that is why Russia sold it to the USA. :D

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VE7ASO VE7ZSO
Amateur Radio Literacy Club. May we help you read better.
Steve Dow
ve7aso@rac.ca


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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sun 03, 2019 10:06 pm 
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radiotechnician wrote:
How many state-of-the art solid
state radios built over the past 70 years still have an ample stock of transistors
(not substitutes) that could be replaced if the thing was subject to a major
EMP incident.

I don't see your point. The whole idea for substitutes is to do exactly that. What difference does it make if the replacement is a 60 year old item, or a new NTE model? In fact, older Germanium Transistors can acquire internal problems, so a new replacement might be preferable.

And 70 years ago would have been 1949; no Transistor consumer radios appeared on the market until the end of 1954.

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 Post subject: Re: selenium rectifier and shock hazard
PostPosted: Feb Sun 03, 2019 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Wasilla Alaska
radiotechnician wrote:
walz wrote:
radiotechnician wrote:
I think that you have a point about an emergency radio that is using simple
technology understood for at least 100 years. How many state-of-the art solid
state radios built over the past 70 years still have an ample stock of transistors
(not substitutes) that could be replaced if the thing was subject to a major
EMP incident.


Being born in 1960, I've seen the progression of electronics, to the point where everyone is dependent on them. I could take it or leave it, since I never had anything growing up.

I live in a basic lifestyle, true I have electronic stuff, however I don't need them like others that are solely dependent on electronics. I could live with or without them if the world took a dump and circled the drain. What better place to be when that happens? For me its Alaska, where it's still full of my survival needs. I'm going to be in the best place when the whole place goes to **deleted**. The difference between Alaska and Canada is firepower, the citizens here have a lot of firepower against anything that comes our way.


Maybe that is why Russia sold it to the USA. :D



I don't know, however I'm quite contented here in Meadow Lakes, away from the city, towns, lower 48 crazies. It's peaceful, very little population, and you can't go wrong living the simple life.

My grandmother, Laura Blanch Miller was from the: MacWilliams, McLeod, clan of PEI.

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