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 Post subject: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 7:25 pm 
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This sounds really serious.

https://www.bbc.com/news

Update: The spire has collapsed

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 7:38 pm 
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Sounds like everything is lost, the current report is that the wooden interior is also burning and can't be saved, and all the artwork which was inside is gone based on the already destroyed areas that can be seen on camera. They are speculating the only thing that will remain standing is some of the stone and masonry outer walls.

Negligence by construction workers responsible? That's the speculation.

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 7:47 pm 
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What about the possibility of a terrorist 'cultural attack'? :|

What a tragedy! :(

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Paris.html

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 8:15 pm 
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Looks like they really don't have the resources to fight a fire this size. I see very few streams of water going into the blaze. Its a shame all the paintings and books are being destroyed.

Dave

Added Picture. Only a couple of fire trucks in sight
Attachment:
Notre Dame.jpg
Notre Dame.jpg [ 65.46 KiB | Viewed 894 times ]


Last edited by easyrider8 on Apr Mon 15, 2019 9:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 8:35 pm 
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Horrible on a massive scale. This structure survived for
something like 900 years. Including two world wars.
Have made many trips there and one of my favorite
places in Europe.

So much history lost.
Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 8:51 pm 
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The French seem focused on things other than adequately preserving such important places and things. When Rima and I visited Paris a few years ago, We saw a centimeter of dust on some of the picture frames in the Louvre. Notre Dame was dark and gloomy compared to many other churches in Europe, although the large window was spectacular. It can be rebuilt.

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Last edited by FStephenMasek on Apr Mon 15, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 8:52 pm 
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RadioNut39 wrote:
What about the possibility of a terrorist 'cultural attack'? :|

What a tragedy! :(

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Paris.html


While an official cause won't be available for some time, hot work gone wrong seems to be the most plausible explanation. I've seen it myself, albeit with a wooden barn; one careless person cuts a corner and an entire roof can go up in flames in a matter of minutes. That said, given the recent political and social climate in France, and indeed much of Europe, other potential causes shouldn't be immediately dismissed. In any case, this is a tremendous loss for western civilization as a whole.


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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 8:59 pm 
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Any competent project manager would have arranged adequate fire detection equipment, fire extinguishers, fire hoses, wayer supply, and so forth.

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 9:21 pm 
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zarco wrote:
Horrible on a massive scale. This structure survived for
something like 900 years. Including two world wars.
Have made many trips there and one of my favorite
places in Europe.

So much history lost.
Steve

Agreed!

I used to travel to Europe twice a year for more than 25 years for business. I often flew into Charles de Gaulle airport first as my layover location and then would pick up a car and drive myself to the other countries in the mainland of Europe...only flying on to the UK and the Republic of Ireland when required. Notre Dame was always one of my very first stops in Paris.

Cheap hyperbole and poorly thought out posturing aside, it is truly sad to see this happening.

BR,

Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 9:44 pm 
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FStephenMasek wrote:
It can be rebuilt.


Like my grandfather's axe. The handle has been replaced three times and the head once, but it's still my grandfather's axe. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 9:49 pm 
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FStephenMasek wrote:
It can be rebuilt.

Exactly. We rebuilt the Twin Towers, and I'm sure the French can do the same for the cathedral, only they'll want to stick to the original design.

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 9:55 pm 
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Terrible Loss. Lets hope the stone can withstand the heat.

Freeman


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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 10:04 pm 
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Difficult to get a good idea of what really happened with just two pictures, but it appears the French Fire Department couldn't put out a fire on a half-eaten marshmallow.


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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 10:27 pm 
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I just see live reports on TV.
One fire fighter is badly hurt.
It is told that they think that they are able to rebuid the building with
its structure.
People from the fire brigade were able to save paintings and other worthful things, but not all.
It is told that the next hour will give the right truth about the future of the church.

I saw the austrian news, an austrian boss of the fire department said that the fire
under the roof exploded because of the strong heat.
If that happens there is no chance because of the wooden roof construction.
Another big problem is the water which will damaged the sand stone.

https://www.n-tv.de/mediathek/videos/pa ... 70405.html

It is told, that works inside the building are responsable for that fire.

What a pain for our history!

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 10:38 pm 
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The latest word is that the structure has been saved, so it can be rebuilt.

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 10:59 pm 
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This is so sad :cry: :cry:

With an artifact that is a treasure of the world why were not precautions taken??
Quote:
but it appears the French Fire Department couldn't put out a fire on a half-eaten marshmallow.


I could only imagine if it was in the City of New York, there would have been dozens of streams of water, the art is most precious.

IMHO I'm sure there are a plethora of engineering drawings...

Faith will rebuild, It would be an accomplishment to redesign with the foundations of antiquity and modern "everlasting" "fireproof" materials...

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Last edited by Chas on Apr Tue 16, 2019 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Mon 15, 2019 11:42 pm 
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Hmm. It is well into the 21st century and it appears that possibly our fire fighting ability is not improved much in 50 years? I know individual equipment and tech is better by far but seems fighting a large structure or difficult access could be improved unless the cost is too much.

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Tue 16, 2019 12:26 am 
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The cathedral was a giant draught chimney full of pyrolyzed fuel. It
went up like this one.

Other than the fuel, same reason.

"the 1975 New York Telephone Exchange fire that injured 239 out of 700 firefighters who battled a blaze fueled by polyvinyl chloride (PVC);."

Cause: Stupidity.

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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Tue 16, 2019 12:50 am 
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Fortunately the original Crown of Thorns, the cap worn by Jesus Christ on the day of His execution, was saved by the firefighters. There were a lot of "relics" in there, bones of saints and other notables, items belonging to saints and biblical characters, all part of the historical, religious, cultural, and societal history.

Thankfully most of these have been salvaged by the firemen.

A great loss will be the mighty organ on which Mendelssohn himself and other great composers premiered their writings: will it ever be replicated?


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 Post subject: Re: Notre Dame cathedral on fire
PostPosted: Apr Tue 16, 2019 1:17 am 
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To those of you bashing the fire department, I can only say ... try it before you bash it. For one thing, NO fire department is prepared for that type of fire. All they can do, and plan for, is to hope for some kind of containment.

Water lines had to be run to the river to supply enough water
Fire equipment and crews were unable to get too close for fear of walls collapsing on them, which is why you noticed mostly snorkel trucks
In the aftermath, it seems they DID save quite a bit of the structure, and better yet, surrounding structures

What was needed here was prevention.... aka sprinkler systems and the like. Even that may not have been enough. 900 year old beams and planks tend to be rather dry. Paintings and tapestries burn well. And the place was perfect for a fire.... a large area full of fuel, surrounded by stone.

I highly doubt there was any terrorism, or arson here. With all the construction in progress, it's much more likely that a careless spark, electrical issue, or cigarette set off the blaze, which had a good head start before anyone even noticed.

Fire generally eats whatever it wants to eat. Quit bashing first responders, and go watch the movie Backdraft. ;-)

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