Forums :: Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives
Support This Site: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently Aug Fri 23, 2019 4:15 am


All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 7:22 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1107
Location: Detroit, Michigan
I realize road maintenance has to be done, I have no problem with that. But I kinda wish there was some other way the repairs could be planned and scheduled so that every single stretch of road north, south, east and west in the whole area isn't completely closed, lanes blocked, torn up and under repair all at the same time. It gets to where you literally can't get anyplace, or go anywhere, without running into blockages of one kind or another and traffic jams. You try to go find a way around the blocked area only to find that blocked, too. Try to find another way around that and, blocked again. Try to cut through one of these subdivisions you don't know, and wind up running around in circles and dead ends. My area is arranged with "Mile Roads", i.e., "10 Mile Rd", going East and West, and streets with names running North and South. If they could limit the construction to every other mile rd, and every other named street, I think that would help some, you could actually still find a way to get someplace in a reasonable time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 7:25 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 9555
Location: 42001 KY
I ran into that in Kalamazoo this year.

_________________
... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 7:26 pm 
Moderator

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 27806
Location: Detroit, MI USA
Unfortunately that's not how it works in Michigan.

We have only two seasons here, winter and construction. This madness will no doubt continue for several more months. Some projects don't even start until September or even later. Usually they stop for the winter by the middle or end of December.

_________________
Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 7:32 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1107
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Mr. Detrola wrote:
Unfortunately that's not how it works in Michigan.

We have only two seasons here, winter and construction. This madness will no doubt continue for several more months. Some projects don't even start until September or even later. Usually they stop for the winter by the middle or end of December.


Yes, true. I think they ought to make the traffic construction cone the new Michigan State Bird.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 7:47 pm 
Member

Joined: Aug Mon 17, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 3451
Location: DFW Texas
Locally there is a charter school starting up again next week. Nice 4 lane divided road runs in front. Mornings and afternoons are a huge traffic jam. All the kids are driven by a parent since few live near. I have enjoyed the lack of traffic in the summer since I pass thru there two times every day.

City of Fort Worth decides that 200 yards of one side needs to be rebuilt. I don't know why its only 2 years old and did not look damaged. But anyway they waited all summer and this week closed two lanes and ripped them up. It'll take at least 6 months to finish maybe more judging f rom past deeds.
This is going to make the traffic unbearable for alot of people. I can find another way to get where I need to go but the road also services two large subdivisions. I would hate to be those people.

_________________
The lucky ones realize the "Good Ole Days" while they are still in them!
AA5LP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 7:49 pm 
Member

Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
Posts: 4418
Location: Norfolk, VA
Things here go in segments, every few miles or so. The worst here is the Natural Gas lines getting upgraded - lots of small patches :twisted: and lane closures for their tubing machines and ditch-witch machines.

I-64 is being widened in segments, but each segment gets to 60% completion before the next segment impacts things. I like the progress - they should be finished about the time my daughter gets her license..... :shock: :x
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/I-6 ... E05fLjScJQ

_________________
Brian
"Capacitor Cosmetologist since 1979"
USN Retired 1984-2006 (Avionics/Cal)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 8:46 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4980
Location: Perrysburg, OH, U.S.A.
OTOH, the excavation for the Empire State building began on January 22, 1930 and the building was opened on May 1, 1931, 464 days later. By comparison, we moved into our present home in 1988 and parts of I-75 through Toledo were being rebuilt, resurfaced, etc. Fast forward to today and guess what? Parts of I-75 through Toledo are being rebuilt, resurfaced, etc. Talk about job security!

As I see it, part of the problem with having to rework the same roads again and again is the way in which the work is done.* Because they try to keep at least one lane open, repairs are done one lane at a time. This causes a natural fault between lanes which is a common area for potholes to develop because of water intrusion and (as those in the northern states so often hear as a cause) the freeze-thaw cycle. This is exacerbated by poor drainage because a camber is no longer used in most roads and the poor location of storm drains. I even see this last on the street in front of our home. The storm drain is 15 feet from the nearest edge of our driveway, but the lowest part of the street by about 2 to 3 inches is at the end of our driveway. So, we get 2 to 3 inches of water standing at the end of our driveway every time it rains enough. And we've had 2 to 3 inches of ice if conditions are right in the winter.

I've also seen underpasses dipping below railroads (Reynolds Road by Angola, anyone) where the storm drains are halfway from the lowest part of the underpass. This would work only if water didn't seek the lowest point, but not in this universe.

Also how many times have you seen resurfacing work where little patches are applied to the underlying concrete prior to the layer of new asphalt being laid? Doesn't if follow that if the concrete needs repaired in spots, that that concrete is probably past its useful life and should be replaced entirely? Just askin'.

John

* Disclaimer: I'm not a civil engineer nor do I play one on TV.

_________________
“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
― R. A. Heinlein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 9:23 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7584
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
I have three different routes I can get home from work that don't take me cross country. This is the first year where all three are impacted by closures and reductions. The route thru downtown is misery at it's best. The single street that exists downtown towards south Minneapolis is beset with closures. All four compass turns immediately away from this knot have additional closures and reductions. God help you if you try to move thru here right after the baseball game ends. Almost as if maximum pain was sought when creating the schedule for construction. I think I deal with it with better composure than many. But what gets my goat is to see the same large machine parked for a week in the same spot having never moved but closing two lanes. I suppose there isn't any place else to park it that doesn't require planning to place it when and where needed not just where needed. I don't know if the long winter season contributes to the problem of if no winter would mean yet more simultaneous projects. But at least I deal with this only on my afternoon drive while the morning drive is mostly OK free of congestion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 10:00 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun Wed 08, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 8988
Location: Ohio 45177
I thought if you went east out of Detroit, splash?

_________________
Reddy Kilowatt says; You smell smoke? Sorry about that!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 10:10 pm 
Moderator

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 27806
Location: Detroit, MI USA
wazz wrote:
I thought if you went east out of Detroit, splash?


Yes, exactly. But I wouldn't plan on going due south from at least the eastern half of the city of
Detroit, either. Same result.

Most people not from the area don't realize that half of the city of Detroit, and all of the eastern suburbs, are actually North of Canada. :shock:

_________________
Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 11:48 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 9555
Location: 42001 KY
I think there were only 4 miles of I-69 from Indy to Mich state line that were not under construction.

_________________
... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 12:18 am 
Member

Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 4620
Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
This is what happens when roads are built cheaply. I do not mean it's cheap ... but they are not built to last forever. I was discussing this with a Canadian pal years ago ... they don't have the same problems there, and they have a lot deeper freeze/thaw cycles than we do here. The difference? THICK concrete, not asphalt. And not thin concrete, which our highways definitely are by comparison.

If built to last, they last.
If built cheaply, they don't last.

BTW..... the Ohio State Flower is the orange plastic barrel.............

_________________
Preserving the hist. of electronics, one boat anchor at a time! :)
https://www.bbtvtestequipment.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 12:56 am 
Member

Joined: May Sat 14, 2011 5:42 am
Posts: 3525
Location: Ft Worth TX
Seminar at NBC, beautiful downtown Burbank, 1985. A road between motel and studio, half of it was closed for one day for resurfacing. The other half the next day. TWO DAYS, DONE. Whole new road, including striping, road narrowed but never closed.

The same project where I live now, 4 months. It sat chewed up (DE-surfaced) a month before they came back and paved it. Same only worse happened at my former metro location.

The disparity can't be accidental. Gooberance? Entrenched incompetence?

_________________
Escuchen Tube = bilingual malapropism


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 2:13 am 
Member

Joined: Mar Wed 16, 2011 10:44 pm
Posts: 966
Location: Peekskill, NY
Those of you who *have* road repairs should cound yourselves lucky. In the
NY metro area the roads are just basically going away and no repairs are undertaken.
Huge rippled up mess of pavement on the parkways, the local streets are nothing
but potholes and cold patch.

I guess the taxpayers are saving money by not maintaining roadways. Tires and
car suspensions are being blown apart though. Come fall season we look at the
disaster roads and say to each other, well, nothings going to be done during the
winter, this is only going to get worse.

These days my best commute is a dual-sport motorcycle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 2:20 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 9005
Location: Beaver Falls, PA. USA
In my area, many of the original roads were concrete. They were later paved over with asphalt, but a crack eventually appears over every expansion joint.

_________________
Tim KA3JRT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 6:58 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul Sat 15, 2006 3:54 am
Posts: 3646
Location: Zeeland MI
In my little town, Zeeland, they decided to put in a round-about. There has been what is called "the y" because Main and Washington split into a lower case y on the west end of town. The problem has been with heading west out of town, where Main and Washington meet. And that piece of road is a short one way, with no right turn posted. I've seen confused people turn right despite the signage. The thing with this round-about is there is not a lot of property to do it in without tearing down at least 5 businesses. I'm not a big fan of round-abouts, but you do what you have to.
Long story longer, they will be done by November some time. Perfect, because the weather will be getting slowly worse, and drivers learning to drive on slippery roads again.
RW

_________________
"I'll do the thinnin' around here!"-Quickdraw McGraw


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 7:27 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 9931
Location: alameda,CA
Around here it takes YEARS to do what seems like projects that back in Tennessee would be done in months. For example there is a new addition to an existing exit not far from my office. They've been constructing a new on ramp for this for at least 3 years so far and its STILL not done.

The freeways here are some of the heaviest traveled in the country and yet there's major swaths that are littered with potholes and degraded, crumbling concrete.
Quote:
was discussing this with a Canadian pal years ago ... they don't have the same problems there, and they have a lot deeper freeze/thaw cycles than we do here


They probably HAVE to use thick concrete since winters there are very severe compared to most of the US. To withstand all that heavy scraping and snow removal equipment, the salt and so on anything resembling our roads would be ruined pretty quickly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 8:07 pm 
Moderator

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 27806
Location: Detroit, MI USA
I know it's possible to do it right, but it's apparently too expensive. In the long run though, it would make everyone happier if the roads lasted 40-50 years.

A friend spent years living and working in Japan on assignment from an American company. They reported that there are rarely any road repairs necessary in Japan, certainly not on the scale we see them here. Only things like widening a road or new construction. They believe in doing it right the first time and not needing to go back to redo it.

Around metro Detroit, you are lucky if a resurfaced road lasts 10-12 years before it needs to be done again. Concrete cracks and develops potholes, while asphalt either over concrete or by itself gets like a washboard from the weight of heavy trucks, then breaks up into chunks between huge potholes. Even if they rip everything out, putting in new drainage, sub base, then all new pavement over that, you are lucky if it makes 20 years before total failure.

A bigger issue here is the crumbling steel framework and concrete supports underneath hundreds of bridges. Some of them are 100 years old...... There is more than one locally which the road underneath the bridge has been closed, and steel beams installed to hold up the bridge and the road above until they can find money to replace the bridge. I drive over one of them several times every day. It's actually frightening to look underneath it. You have to see this to believe it! Link included below.......


Attachments:
bridge fail.jpg [536.12 KiB]
Not downloaded yet

_________________
Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 8:55 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr Wed 24, 2013 10:08 pm
Posts: 1231
Location: Highland, MI
More infuriating are the stretches of road that are worked on for many years in a row. Instead of starting numerous projects at the same time that stretch for long times, concentrate the workforce on one stretch of road, finish, then move on to the other. They should work these jobs more in series than in parallel. It would put fewer roads out of commission, with less interruption in traffic, while getting the same amount of work done.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Road Construction
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 9:03 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr Wed 24, 2013 10:08 pm
Posts: 1231
Location: Highland, MI
I've heard that in some parts of Europe money is withheld after a job is completed, and set aside for repairs. If over the course of 10 or 20 years the road needs no repair, the remaining money is then paid to the contractor. This gives plenty of incentive to do a good job efficiently.

Instead, we have a lowest bidder winning the contract, leaving the local governments (our money) to pay and repair the shoddy work.


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 27 posts ]  Moderator: Alan Voorhees Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 19&41, Blustar1, bobwilson1977, Findm-Keepm, mdnelson, NostalgiaRadioTime, processhead and 17 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  




























Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB