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 Post subject: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Fri 27, 2020 11:10 pm 
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Location: Gretna, Nebraska
My son has a 97 Honda Civic with cast alloy rims that are experiencing corrosion in the bead seating area of the rims.
This is causing slow leaks and aggravation.
The tire shop we use has attempted buffing out the corroded areas on the rims and coating them with some sort of sealant, but its not getting the job done.
The correct solution would be to get different rims, but the car is in the beater category and may not justify the expense.
Is installing innertubes in the tubeless tires a cost effective and workable solution?

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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Fri 27, 2020 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Feb Sat 06, 2016 1:47 am
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Location: La Mesa Califonia
Auto salvage yard. Steel rims and plastic wheel covers. Inner tubes leak unless the use of hydrogen ( Green Caps )

EDIT from steal to steel. Rims are cheap enough no need to steal them.


Last edited by thunderbird281 on Nov Sat 28, 2020 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Fri 27, 2020 11:39 pm 
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Location: Aurora Colorado
If the area is smooth, it should be okay.If there are rivets, and things, you could stick a liner in there, like on a bike rim, plenty of old tubes around, to slice up to fit.

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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Fri 27, 2020 11:39 pm 
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I don't know why this post ended up in the Radio Clubhouse, but anyway...

I retired from a tire manufacturing company, so I do have a little more than a layman's perspective here.

Yes, innertubes should work (assuming you can find the right size).

And it's not Hydrogen, it's Nitrogen that is indicated by the green caps. Actually, just plain air would not be a problem for inflation of innertubes; that's exactly what they used from the 1910's to the 1960's before tubeless tires came along. Nitrogen to fill tires is a very new development, really only available to consumers since 2000 or so. Nitrogen does have some advantage, but it's not dramatically better than air. I've used both, and the leakage rate is not substantially different.

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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Fri 27, 2020 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Apr Mon 04, 2011 4:23 am
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Location: SW PA
thunderbird281 wrote:
Auto salvage yard. Steal rims and plastic wheel covers. Inner tubes leak unless the use of hydrogen ( Green Caps )

It's illegal to steal wheels and hubcaps. :mrgreen: As mentioned, it's also nitrogen. Hydrogen would be quite dangerous. :shock: Plain old air works just about as well without leaking, too.

I mount my tires myself. I use a grinder with a wire brush on it, and clean the bead area until it is shiny. I never have leaks and don't even need to use that nasty sealer crap.

In my past experiences, tire shops never bother to actually clean the corrosion off before slathering the sealer crap over it. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Fri 27, 2020 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
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Location: Sunnyvale CA
processhead wrote:
My son has a 97 Honda Civic with cast alloy rims that are experiencing corrosion in the bead seating area of the rims.
This is causing slow leaks and aggravation.
The tire shop we use has attempted buffing out the corroded areas on the rims and coating them with some sort of sealant, but its not getting the job done.
The correct solution would be to get different rims, but the car is in the beater category and may not justify the expense.
Is installing innertubes in the tubeless tires a cost effective and workable solution?


Not really. Most places would turn/face the corroded section down until it cleaned up, then see if it was still in spec. I think the seal is on the flange rather than the diameter, so facing it off by .020 or so would not alter the critical dimensions. In an extreme case, you could have someone clean it up, TIG or heliarc some more material, then turn it back to the original dimensions. Of course you could buy new wheels all around by the time that was done with - a quick search looks like $135ish a wheel.

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 1:58 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 9711
Location: Redlands CA
Check Craigslist, I was able to get a set of four Alloy Wheels for my 03 Escape for $100.
There should be a ton of Honda take offs laying around since the kids all like to customize, you can probably find some with good tires already mounted.


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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 2:02 am 
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Joined: Nov Fri 14, 2014 12:22 am
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Location: Howell Michigan
If you are going to use inner tubes be aware that radial tires require an inner tube specifically designed for radial tires. You can use a radial inner tube in a bias tire but not the other way around.


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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 4:24 am 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
For a wheel barrow, an inner tube is the only way to go. :lol:

They are sold with a tubeless tire that holds air for about a year. I imagine there is a small saving to the manufacturer, inner tube costs about $8. You have to take out the old valve, I will just slice the inner end of the valve off with a hacksaw blade. A sharp blow with a hammer to the outer end also works.

For the Honda? Agreed, Auto Wrecker for rims and tires ready to go. Sometimes they'll mount tires on rims if need be.
Fighting corrosion as you know is a losing battle.

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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 4:28 am 
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Joined: Jul Tue 15, 2008 6:13 pm
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Location: Gretna, Nebraska
Rust Never Sleeps. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 5:37 am 
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Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
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Location: Florida
RetireeJay wrote:
.........And it's not Hydrogen, it's Nitrogen that is indicated by the green caps. Actually, just plain air would not be a problem for inflation of innertubes; ..........


I've always used a special blend of 78% nitrogen and other gases in all my car and bicycle tires.

RRM


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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 7:42 am 
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Joined: Jul Fri 10, 2020 4:04 am
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Location: La Crosse Ks.
I never use tubes in steel belted tires. I had some Goodyear Vector All season tires (very good in the snow) back when I was in Vo-Tech. I had a problem with them going boom while going down the highway. No warning, nothing, just BOOM!!! Total destruction of the tire, all that was left was the beads on the rim. I can't remember why I was running tubes in those tires, but there had to be a reason. After the first 2 went boom, I traded them and the tubes to a buddy and he put them on hay trailers to pull around the fields. I've never had any other tires go with no warning. I'm pretty sure it was the tube/tire combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 9:15 am 
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Location: Perrysburg, OH, 43551 U.S.A.
I don't know how true it may be, but I've heard that some of the Aluminum allow cast wheels were found to be slightly porous, leaking air even though the tire to rim seal was perfect. Apparently, this wasn't a problem until the factory lacquer (?) coating used to protect against corrosion wore off in places. Has anyone else heard this?
John

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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
OldWireBender wrote:
I don't know how true it may be, but I've heard that some of the Aluminum allow cast wheels were found to be slightly porous, leaking air even though the tire to rim seal was perfect. Apparently, this wasn't a problem until the factory lacquer (?) coating used to protect against corrosion wore off in places. Has anyone else heard this?
John

That's not an old wives tale. It was very true during the early years in alloy wheels. Not all of them, but one is too many if you happen to own it.
So many people just want to buy the rim, not the whole wheel. Note up in this thread how many are just putting a rim on their car.... IT AIN'T A RIM DUDE, IT'S A WHEEL.

it's a pet peeve of mine.

Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 5:01 pm 
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Mark D wrote:
OldWireBender wrote:
I don't know how true it may be, but I've heard that some of the Aluminum allow cast wheels were found to be slightly porous, leaking air even though the tire to rim seal was perfect. Apparently, this wasn't a problem until the factory lacquer (?) coating used to protect against corrosion wore off in places. Has anyone else heard this?
John

That's not an old wives tale. It was very true during the early years in alloy wheels. Not all of them, but one is too many if you happen to own it.
So many people just want to buy the rim, not the whole wheel. Note up in this thread how many are just putting a rim on their car.... IT AIN'T A RIM DUDE, IT'S A WHEEL.

it's a pet peeve of mine.

Mark D.


See now, I learned something new this morning. I had no idea I could buy the rim without the wheel. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Aug Mon 17, 2009 4:11 pm
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Location: DFW Texas
Air works just fine. If it doesn't have pressure monitors squirt in a tube of SLIME. I've had to do that several times and am happy with it. Even used it on a dirt bike that I rode almost every single day fo several years that was always losing air in the back tire.

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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Apr Mon 04, 2011 4:23 am
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Location: SW PA
Dennis H. wrote:
Air works just fine. If it doesn't have pressure monitors squirt in a tube of SLIME. I've had to do that several times and am happy with it. Even used it on a dirt bike that I rode almost every single day fo several years that was always losing air in the back tire.

That's a band-aid solution and a bad idea.

Depending on the type used, that crap can corrode the wheel even more (I've seen it happen). It will also throw the wheel balance off, and no amount of rebalancing it will fix it because it doesn't stay in one place inside the tire.


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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 8:45 pm 
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Location: Fenton, MI 48430
Yes, innertube is a good solution. I have done it. Toss out the bad idea statement.

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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 8:47 pm 
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Location: Lake City, SC
I know it's been mentioned before but steel rims are a lot easier to keep up with--and if anything happens to them, they're very cheap at wrecking yards.


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 Post subject: Re: Tubeless Tires, Leaking Rims, Innertubes
PostPosted: Nov Sat 28, 2020 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 5363
Location: Sunnyvale CA
Retired Radio Man wrote:
RetireeJay wrote:
.........And it's not Hydrogen, it's Nitrogen that is indicated by the green caps. Actually, just plain air would not be a problem for inflation of innertubes; ..........


I've always used a special blend of 78% nitrogen and other gases in all my car and bicycle tires.

RRM


What the h*ll, man? I told you about that special trick IN CONFIDENCE! Now everybody knows!

Brett


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