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 Post subject: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Fri 24, 2021 4:18 pm 
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Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
I subscribe to Freecycle, the clock was posted yesterday afternoon.

Not elegant views, but it was awarded to me...

Some 7' tall will clear my ceilings by 4" :roll:

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I will be pricking it up this afternoon...

The story,

It was built from a kit, with a German movement about 1970, case is walnut. As it stands, running perfectly. The builder was a clock-maker by trade. I do not know, yet, if it chimes, since I see only two chains, not four, I suspect not. My Sessions Tambour is not running, the Westminster, chimes are not pleasant for someone who has occasional insomnia...And yes, Mr, Greed had to ask was there were any clock-makers tooling, no... :(


The Freecycle doner received two tall case clocks from the estate, this one became surplus.

The long story: I became interested in clocks in the late 60's and wanted to build a kit grandfather clock. Had gathered much information from the many companies at that time that were offering kits. FWIK all these kit makers have gone away. I put my dream on the "back burner" so to speak until this morning...

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Fri 24, 2021 4:27 pm 
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Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Mason Sullivan was my favorite, always had high quality stuff

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Fri 24, 2021 4:57 pm 
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
If it is anything like mine, you have to take the pendulum off before transporting it to avoid breaking the suspension spring.
Also wind it enough so that you can get at both ends of each chain. Use some string or anything handy to fasten both ends of each chain together as close to the movement as you can. This is to keep the chains from coming off of the pulleys. And remove the weights. While doing that, note if some weights are heavier than others.

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Fri 24, 2021 5:11 pm 
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Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
Yes, I am aware of the pendulum as well as the weights... Thanks.

I called my financial manager for any further advice. His hobby is clocks. He is taking the afternoon off and has volunteered his truck and expertise to help move it. I have to be at his home at 1:30...

I have also gotten a PM that has jogged a bit of my memory as well as Andrews contribution of Mason & Sullivan, the other, Emperor Clock Co. and memory suggests Kumpel?

The gifters name is Andrew small world.

I have decided on a location in my home, I will have to move a Sessions Craftsman/Mission style wall clock to gain space :roll:

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Fri 24, 2021 6:28 pm 
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Location: Georgia, 30236
If you like clocks, it looks like you got a good one to live with.

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Fri 24, 2021 8:05 pm 
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Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Here's some links

http://www.perryopolis.com/clockmaker/
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 5882893073
http://jtwoodenclocks.com/Learning_Agai ... r_2.html#4
https://delaneyantiqueclocks.com/produc ... Wall-clock

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Fri 24, 2021 10:50 pm 
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Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
Folks,

My financial manager/clockmaker friend, Gerry, took half a day off and used his truck to take it home. It was a bit funny as none of us knew exactly how to dissemble and transport the thing. So we were correcting ourselves as we went along.
We discovered after loading face up, the the top cap slides on. Had we turned it over, it would have been disaster :shock:

I tried to remember all the steps we took and in what order to dismember it. But Jerry remembered. I tied off the chains by passing a cord through a link opening as close to the mechanics as possible.

It fits my home with 1" to spare above the finial :roll: As it came together I assisted holding the chime hammers away as the chimes/back were installed. I thought I had my fingers out of the way it was not enough, the hour strikers got a bit deformed so they had to get re-adjusted.. Yes the weights were marked, got re-hung.

We both noted some sludge on the bearings and were optimistic...

Re-hung the pendulum, then heard a rattle to the bottom of the case. An unseen rotted elastic band fell to the bottom with a spare suspension spring :)) Tied the string from the chains onto it and placed it back into the bottom of the case.

Started him up and and off he went, full Westminster chimes just as mellow as could be...

The chimes are making a "fluttering" noise traced to worn bearings on the governor vane. So it is decided to let it run for a couple of hours and shut down. Sometime in November take in to be cleaned, re-bushed and lubricated.

In mean time the upper case door is binding the case has shrunk but not the door. Same for the lower case door, binding. Here too wait for the few months for the moisture to acclimate to my dry home, then refit the doors while the works are out for a rebuild...

BONG!!!!

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Sat 25, 2021 1:27 am 
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Hi Chas, nice score.

As you probably remember from our past conversations, my father was from Boston (actually Quincy), and his father built a house in South Chatham, along with my dad and his sister's husband. They have all passed away now, and the house has been sold :( .

More to the point, Dad's grandfather built a grandfather clock. His name was Lewis John Olson. My oldest son is named after him, but my son Lewis is not in a position in his life to take possession of it. I don't have room for it with my radio and antique fan collection, and my house flooded, so I would never subject it to the possibility of flood. My youngest daughter will get the clock instead.

Lewis built four or five clocks in total. Mine was the first, built around 1935. He had a cabinet maker build the cabinet, it was patterned off some famous clock in England. All the gears were hand filed, the hands hand cast, and his son, Gordon, a machinist at Boston Gear, swore that the clock could not possibly run. It still runs daily as of now. The 29 1/2 day moon dial is a bit fiddly, as are the day and date dials, but nothing a bit of attention doesn't remedy. It has two German silver bells, one for the hour, and one for the half. Late at night, you may not know if it is 12:30, 1:00, or 1:30, unless you were a light sleeper, or had a good musical ear.

The other clocks that Lewis built are still in the (greatly extended) family, but I have lost track of them and their owners.

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Sat 25, 2021 1:46 am 
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Location: Lexington, KY, USA
Potential thread hijack: I also have a grandfather clock to restore - built by me and my grandfather 50 years ago. we bought a movement (Urgos, W. Germany) and I read the instructions and he scratch-built the case. He would never spend money on himself and he made the case out of pine and worked like heck to make it look good. With nicks, etc., acquired over time it needs to be refinished and I am at a loss as to how to go about doing it (I'm sure everyone who restores wooden radios knows that staining pine is a fool's errand). This will be one of my early retirement projects.

I thought that mechanisms of brass would last forever, but apparently, the life expectancy of these mechs is only about 25 years without consistent cleaning and oiling. Dust apparently causes wear, and although my grandfather did a pretty good job of keeping the mechanism dust-free with tight case tolerances, it worries me that it may be nearly worn out. It was probably operating at least 30 years in my mom and dad's house.


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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Sat 25, 2021 2:42 am 
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Hi-Jack away my man :D

Actually, a passable faux grain can be done to pine. Do not expect a hard finish to stand up as a dent will compress the wood and not the finish film. So something durable like shellac may work... If you detect egg shaped pivot holes then the movement will have to be re-bushed. The minimum will be at least $125, labor intensive.

I did search online and there are many good reports of using synthetic engine oil stating at 0-30 for the small gears, a heavier grade for the mid gears and a heavier still for the mainspring case gear. Inquire online as always there are positive and negative comments on clock oil.

FYI If you have cats or any animal indoors and have clay cat litter, that ultra fine dust goes almost everywhere in the home. It is both highly abrasive and absorptive of lubricant. It can suck the life out of pre-lubed forever bearings and ruin the kitchen, laundry and HVAC motors in 3-5 years. I stopped that litter 10 years ago and motor life has increased dramatically. The Bissell rug cleaner is still pulling the fine clay out of the rugs...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have given the clock its 3hr test run. It stopped striking all but once on the hours :shock: So I pulled the top off and discovered the silencing lever loose and the strike arm out of position. Fixed. So I got curios about the "fluttering". It seems the governor got a quick repair with a small extension spring spanning the blades of the governor. The spring had slipped down and lessened its force on the blades. I added more tension to the spring and moved its position. Now the blades only move out during the complete series of chimes. There is a broken wave spring that is at the end of the governor blades that would normally control the governor. The coil spring was a temporary fix. When it was loose the blades would extend way out and tap the teeth of a nearby gear.

I put a droplet of contact cement on the spring ends. I would not want the spring to go off and land in the gears.

When I do get the clock cleaned I will have the governor fixed proper.

I also discovered there are levers for silencing both the hour and the chime, separately, sweet. And there is free oil in all the pivots, not sludge :D

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Sat 25, 2021 7:34 am 
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Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
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Location: Melbourne, Florida
Chas wrote:
......... If you detect egg shaped pivot holes then the movement will have to be re-bushed. The minimum will be at least $125, labor intensive. .....


Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the small clock shop I helped in charged about $350 to refurbish a grandfather movement. It's a lot of work.

RRM


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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Sat 25, 2021 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3801
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
OldHack wrote:
Potential thread hijack: I also have a grandfather clock to restore - built by me and my grandfather 50 years ago. we bought a movement (Urgos, W. Germany) and I read the instructions and he scratch-built the case. He would never spend money on himself and he made the case out of pine and worked like heck to make it look good. With nicks, etc., acquired over time it needs to be refinished and I am at a loss as to how to go about doing it (I'm sure everyone who restores wooden radios knows that staining pine is a fool's errand). This will be one of my early retirement projects.

I thought that mechanisms of brass would last forever, but apparently, the life expectancy of these mechs is only about 25 years without consistent cleaning and oiling. Dust apparently causes wear, and although my grandfather did a pretty good job of keeping the mechanism dust-free with tight case tolerances, it worries me that it may be nearly worn out. It was probably operating at least 30 years in my mom and dad's house.


You may be able to buy a replacement movement,check here
https://www.clockworks.com/clock-moveme ... ement.html

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Sat 25, 2021 3:03 pm 
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
There are words to the Westminster chimes. According to the Emperor Clock Company:

Lord through this hour
Be Thou our guide
So by Thy power
No foot shall slide

Melody composed by Handel, "I Know That My Redeemer Liveth"

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Sun 26, 2021 12:03 am 
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For anyone who thinks the words are:
Gold Bell Gift Stamps
You are showing your age. :)

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Sun 26, 2021 9:39 pm 
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Location: Mid Michigan
I'm a clock guy and yes, I'm showing my age.


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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Mon 27, 2021 4:14 pm 
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That grand father Clock would have to have weights to run. There are no springs evidence by the lack of Key holes. The weights drop and have to be pulled up to keep running. It May have Chimes but more likely a coil spring gong. Looks like it has 3 chains ( 2 in front of the pendulum and one behind it. I don't think it has more than one type of chime because if there were more selectable chimes it would have a selective lever on the clock face.

I have a Grandfather Clock and its a Miller. It uses cables and pulleys for the weights. I have Had the clock since 1985 (36 years ) Never had it cleaned and it keeps suburb time. It took time to adjust the pendulum Height. I would adjust it no more than once a month till it coincided with WWV. I did put Saran wrap over the side doors to keep the dust out and that worked wonderful.

The one mishap was when they delivered the clock they hadn't fastened the dial plate or mounting brackets. and every time I would pull the weight up the dial face would move and make a clunk. So I called them and the owner returned and fixed the errors. Of course His young son was blamed for the error (and Hadn't even been in the house at all)

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Mon 27, 2021 8:39 pm 
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Cliff,

My "new" Grandfather has a duplex set of rod chimes. Faced from the front, the right hand rods are the melody, the left are the gong. Yes it is weight driven, the weights run from 8#, 9.8# and 12#. There is no wear that I can detect as an amateur.

I did find the hour hand on backwards :shock:, that, resulted in time of the chime & gong ahead by 1-1/2 mins. Apparently the square bushing in the minute hand is offset. Flipping the hand over corrected the chime/gong timing...

I just checked the doors for binding, they are fitting better each day. The home where it resided was not air conditioned and the cabinet absorbed a lot of moisture.

I found I have access to the gong/chime on/off levers, by reaching up via the weight access door. It is awkward to do this, I am looking for a ready made clock part in the form of a hanging rod that will extend into the weight box.

I think I found something for a Hermle clock, seems they are the only clock works manufacturer that have considered extended access for the silencing... chas

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Last edited by Chas on Sep Tue 28, 2021 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 6:51 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Florida
Chas wrote:
Cliff,..... Apparently the square bushing in the minute hand is offset. Flipping the hand over corrected the chime/gong timing...


You can adjust that bushing to rotate the hand. There's a tool for this. I made one out of a screwdriver when I was doing clock repairs. The handle end of a rat-tail file can also be used.

My clock has a lever that extends through the face and allows selection of one of three chimes or silent. The movement is Hermle.

RRM


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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 4:35 pm 
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Retired Radio Man wrote:
Chas wrote:
Cliff,..... Apparently the square bushing in the minute hand is offset. Flipping the hand over corrected the chime/gong timing...


You can adjust that bushing to rotate the hand. There's a tool for this. I made one out of a screwdriver when I was doing clock repairs. The handle end of a rat-tail file can also be used.

My clock has a lever that extends through the face and allows selection of one of three chimes or silent. The movement is Hermle.

RRM
Yes, I saw a vid for that using needle nose pliers. Somehow tackling a pristine part like the minute hand with pliers is a true ham & egg approach. Since the square hub did not appear to in precise alignment with the tip of the hand. I tried flipping it over, works perfectly.

Yes, there are certain luxuries not on this clock, the "Tempus Fugit" medallion is clearly shouting that.

I would like to have an elegant, Horologist like approach to easily silence the chimes. But so far, silencing the chimes by reaching deep up into the works and doing that but once, has worked fine. I tried letting the weight run out but that results in the chime being out of sync when the weight is pulled up and chimes re-started. chas

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 Post subject: Re: New Acquisition Grandfather Clock
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 5:10 pm 
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Location: Boston, Massachusetts
I love the hand painted moving moon dials, especially on the real early clocks

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