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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Wed 24, 2019 10:05 am 
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Does anyone have a link on how/where to submit a public comment about this proposal? None of the articles I can find online mention how to do that, and I cannot find anything on the FCC's website.


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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Wed 24, 2019 11:14 am 
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Don't worry, easier than ever! Their new service or subcontractors will comment on your behalf.
The new software is robust, with "Roundfile technology (tm) "and portals from the great beyond.
http://fortune.com/2017/11/25/1-million ... ably-fake/


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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Wed 24, 2019 3:03 pm 
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I believe you can comment here:

https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/filings?proceedings_name=RM-11836&q=(proceedings.name:((11836*)%20OR%20(RM%5C-11836))%20OR%20proceedings.description:((11836*)%20OR%20(RM%5C-11836)))&sort=date_disseminated,DESC

You probably want to use the "Express" comment option in the top box on the left side of the page. I've read elsewhere that comments will be accepted until May 13 but I do not see that date posted on the FCC website anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Wed 24, 2019 3:15 pm 
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Two issues that preclude going all digital. First it has to be better and second it has to be better. Digital TV was more easily achievable because TV is stationary so once you have a signal it wont appreciably change. A fair percentage of radio is mobile and digital is not mobile friendly unless you have adequate coverage. HD radio in my car is spotty at best and even with local broadcasts I rarely get a consistent HD signal. Its going to be pretty annoying when the signal is either there or its not.

This being said the only logical way to go to all digital is to create a new band for it and a method of coverage. The alternate method and one that is used most often is streaming thorough wireless or cellular. The network exists, the towers exist, coverage is good, and with 5G rollout there will be plenty of bandwidth. Radio will eventually be a pay to listen service, either thorough your WiFi or cell provider as it is now or some other monopoly that begins with a lower case i or x.

Converting AM to digital is futile.

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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Wed 24, 2019 4:09 pm 
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khutch wrote:
I believe you can comment here:

https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/filings?proceedings_name=RM-11836&q=(proceedings.name:((11836*)%20OR%20(RM%5C-11836))%20OR%20proceedings.description:((11836*)%20OR%20(RM%5C-11836)))&sort=date_disseminated,DESC

You probably want to use the "Express" comment option in the top box on the left side of the page. I've read elsewhere that comments will be accepted until May 13 but I do not see that date posted on the FCC website anywhere.


Thanks for the direct link to respond to this MA3 Digital proposal.

And Jeff a nice write up. You should copy that and post it to the above FCC site. I just completed my comments re: MA3 and ALL Digital forms on AM radio.

John k9uwa

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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Wed 24, 2019 5:23 pm 
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atwaterkent1 wrote:
They made digital to analog converters for TV, why couldn't they do the same for radio?


Sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

And if the converters are anything like the ones for TV, the amount of stations you pick up is determined by the particular converter.

Also given digital doesn't travel as far reliably, AM stations wouldn't cover as wide of a market.

Another thing is unless the digital signal is able to be sent over the analog transmitters, imagine how much scrap would be created as stations remove their now obsolete transmitters and replace with new digital transmitters. Also imagine the history that will be lost as some stations have some very old transmitters.


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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Wed 24, 2019 11:49 pm 
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The converters were made so that older TV sets could continue to be used if the owner wanted to. I'm not sure what you mean by "defeats the purpose"? :?

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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Thu 25, 2019 12:38 am 
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Far as radio is concerned it will take away tuning the radio as it would only need to be set to one frequency.

Some would love that, but others prefer tuning the radio itself.

One would then only need to ensure the antique radio only works on one frequency and some would say why restore it.

Case in point.

I got one of the small Sony TVs that looks like someone shrunk a full size tv. Initially I restored part of it by replacing a few bad caps, but when the digital transition happened I haven't bothered with it since then and it just sits as I have no real use for it.


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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Thu 25, 2019 1:24 am 
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You guys are worrying about something that either is not gonna happen, or if it does will be so far in the future that we'll be turning to dust when it does.

The 1 meg spectrum of AM radio really has no current technological value beyond what it's current use is, for one thing given antenna sizes required, and for another, it's miniscule size as compared to the higher frequency ranges.

The federal government could mandate the change to digital for television since converters -on their dime- could be obtained (I got mine for one cent), but that was for stationary television sets in homes. There's no practical way to offer a converter for a portable AM radio, or the AM band in car radios.

And again, the proposal is for a voluntary switch; they are not demanding it. Many rural AM stations are mom and pop outfits who would never be able to afford switching to digital transmission equipment.

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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Thu 25, 2019 4:16 am 
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1) There are many millions of AM radios, and many are built into things such as cars.

2) The frequency range is useless for cell phones and data.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Thu 25, 2019 11:00 pm 
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Steve.Pietras wrote:
Well, this is kind of a bummer for us radio collectors BUT it was destined to happen. IBOC for AM will go away and AM carriers will be made all digital is the proposed change. How will this impact our hobby? I like to believe as always we will adapt, just like having a missing part on a classic radio. My thoughts are we simply decode with a digital, take analog audio to a small analog AM transmitter for part 15 use to play on any classic radio.

Where do I leave comments??

I love ANALOG radio... I HATE THE SOUND OF DIGITAL AUDIO!!!!!!!!

If they do this I just wont listen to any radio anymore.......

THINGS KEEP GETTING WORSE AND WORSE AND ITS SICKENING Image


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Apr Thu 25, 2019 11:34 pm 
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Steve.Pietras wrote:
Well, this is kind of a bummer for us radio collectors BUT it was destined to happen. IBOC for AM will go away and AM carriers will be made all digital is the proposed change. How will this impact our hobby? I like to believe as always we will adapt, just like having a missing part on a classic radio. My thoughts are we simply decode with a digital, take analog audio to a small analog AM transmitter for part 15 use to play on any classic radio.


Provided part 15 analog AM transmitters are still allowed.

Personally I don't see it happening anytime soon.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Apr Fri 26, 2019 1:28 am 
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Dude111 wrote:
THINGS KEEP GETTING WORSE AND WORSE AND ITS SICKENING Image
Really? Record low unemployment. 700 and 800 horsepower muscle cars which can also corner. I've been in the environmental consulting business for 29 years, but have never seen it so busy that that analytical laboratories are telling us one week is the most rapaid turn-around time available on some routine types of asbestos analysis, and are turning away new clients. That situation is nationwide, and indicates a boom in building renovation and demolition. We expect them to be even more over-loaded this Summer due to asbestos removal work at schools. It is a good problem to have, as it is just more evidence of the vast economic boom now underway.

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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Fri 26, 2019 1:53 am 
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In December the official unemployment rate was 10.0% . By January 2016 the rate was 4.9%. A drop of 5.1%. The current unemployment rate is 3.8%, a drop of 1.1%. The boom started in early 2010.

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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Fri 26, 2019 2:30 am 
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I say, let broadcasters have the option, and then they can see what happens. They would be hit by two immediate consequences: a loss in listenership and a loss of the ability to carry live content.

When stations go to all digital, there WILL be some segment of their listenership that is clueless and that wonders why the station they formerly listened to has changed to a loud hissing sound. The easiest thing for a listener to do under this circumstance is to change to another station. Trying a different platform might be a viable option (like the station Website or a mobile phone app) might be a route that a small portion of the listenership takes. Very few would go to the trouble to call the station, and virtually nobody would buy an HD radio just to be able to keep hearing one radio station, given the media saturated environment that exists today.

Another issue that a select number of broadcasters care about (though most do not) is that HD radio has a built-in delay to prevent dropout of reception during brief signal interruptions. A friend gave me an early generation HD receiver some time ago, and I noted that if I pulled out the antenna plug, the radio kept playing for several seconds before reception was lost. Some radio stations, I was told, turn off HD when broadcasting sports play-by-play, for the benefit of fans who want to listen to the commentary while watching the game in the stadium.


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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Fri 26, 2019 4:13 am 
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Alfredo_T wrote:
fans who want to listen to the commentary while watching the game in the stadium.

My dad used to watch football on TV with the sound off, and listen to the play-by-play on the radio. When I asked him why he did that, he said the radio announcers were more descriptive than the TV commentators.

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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Fri 26, 2019 10:01 am 
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flyboy71 wrote:
Two issues that preclude going all digital. First it has to be better and second it has to be better. Digital TV was more easily achievable because TV is stationary so once you have a signal it wont appreciably change. A fair percentage of radio is mobile and digital is not mobile friendly unless you have adequate coverage. HD radio in my car is spotty at best and even with local broadcasts I rarely get a consistent HD signal. Its going to be pretty annoying when the signal is either there or its not.

This being said the only logical way to go to all digital is to create a new band for it and a method of coverage. The alternate method and one that is used most often is streaming thorough wireless or cellular. The network exists, the towers exist, coverage is good, and with 5G rollout there will be plenty of bandwidth. Radio will eventually be a pay to listen service, either thorough your WiFi or cell provider as it is now or some other monopoly that begins with a lower case i or x.

Converting AM to digital is futile.


Converting AM to all HD is not futile. It will save the band from eventual death. There will be no new radio band in the US (like 77-88 Mhz, as some on the internet have suggested elsewhere), so anyone who thinks so can forget about that idea.

The proposal is to allow stations which choose to go all-HD, it's not a mandate for an all-HD band. Right now some automakers are deciding to not put AM on their car radios, and aftermarket radios are not an option in such cars. About 30% of new cars have HD AM capable radios. HD has its failings but it is less bothered by noise than analog AM.

There will always be analog on the AM band -- as long as it exists -- as many stations are not going to pony up the money to go HD. But allowing all HD on the AM band allows those stations which think it's viable to do so. And in 30 years the AM band can either be populated with a few HD stations and an analog holdout or two, or nothing but static.


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 Post subject: Re: FCC Seeks comments on all digital AM radio
PostPosted: Apr Fri 26, 2019 11:34 am 
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Renton481 wrote:
Converting AM to all HD is not futile.


Unless it has CD quality sound, it is futile as there's often other ways to listen to the same content. Now if AM broadcasters went back to how it used to be with actual DJs doing actual programming playing a food variety of what the station's genre is then maybe digital AM could work.

Renton481 wrote:
It will save the band from eventual death.


if the stuff I mentioned is done then perhaps that will be true.

Renton481 wrote:
HD has its failings but it is less bothered by noise than analog AM.


Can it be received as far as an analog AM station can?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Apr Fri 26, 2019 3:55 pm 
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Dude111 wrote:
Steve.Pietras wrote:
Well, this is kind of a bummer for us radio collectors BUT it was destined to happen. IBOC for AM will go away and AM carriers will be made all digital is the proposed change. How will this impact our hobby? I like to believe as always we will adapt, just like having a missing part on a classic radio. My thoughts are we simply decode with a digital, take analog audio to a small analog AM transmitter for part 15 use to play on any classic radio.

Where do I leave comments??

I love ANALOG radio... I HATE THE SOUND OF DIGITAL AUDIO!!!!!!!!

If they do this I just wont listen to any radio anymore.......

THINGS KEEP GETTING WORSE AND WORSE AND ITS SICKENING Image


AM is always going to be a valid option, I think. Plain and simply it works and works very well. Funnily enough I was the other day revising the principles of AM modulation and the various methods used. Pretty high voltages for plate modulation but a very reliable and tested method. Besides that, I think maybe amateurs will at some point return in more force to the SW bands and homebrew scene.
At the moment digital is in fashion because it's new but we've been here before. I very well recall how the old tube radios were displaced by turntable stereo in the seventies. In my view it was the "stereo" aspect that convinced the consumer that tube radio was "old hat". Why? Well, stereo (like 3D) was new because you had the audio coming from two speakers and mixed. Despite tube radios being mono, in reality the audio sound on many was awesome.
Another trend I think was the arrival of the transistor. I think the amateur Hams expected transistors to enhance their hobby but not displace the tube. Gradually that's what happened, more so in the domestic scene though.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Apr Sat 27, 2019 12:32 am 
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Consider that there are 4700 AM radio stations in the US.
Here is the known current list of stations running IBOC either part time or full time.
http://topazdesigns.com/iboc/station-list.html

Stations which previously ran IBOC but currently have it turned off completely are shown in green.
Total number of stations listed: 311
Number of stations currently on air with IBOC: 117
Number of stations confirmed to be running IBOC at night, at least intermittently: 35
Please send additions and corrections to bdmclarnon@gmail.com
Last update: 12 Nov 2018

This article is well worth your time to read. IBOC at Night, Five Years Later
https://www.radioworld.com/news-and-business/iboc-at-night-five-years-later

John k9uwa

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