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 Post subject: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Wed 22, 2021 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1239
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
St. Louis Channel 2 just announced that they are going to broadcast in ATSC 3.0. They claim it will be compatible with ATSC 1.0. I had heard that the word was that it would not be compatible with 1.0. It would be interesting to learn what changed. I guess there was too much blowback from people not wanting to buy new TVs. Anyone have any information on this?

Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Wed 22, 2021 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 501
Location: Austin, TX
ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 aren't compatible, so they must be broadcasting both systems simultaneously.


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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Wed 22, 2021 10:12 pm 
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Yes, they are broadcasting on both systems.
From what I have read, this is how it works:
You need two cooperating TV stations. One stations transmitter will broadcast all of both stations programming using ATSC 1.0 with as many sub channels as necessary.
The other stations transmitter will broadcast both stations programming using ATSC 3.0 also using sub channels.
After some large number of years they will drop ATSC 1.0 and each station will go back to using their own transmitter.

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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Thu 23, 2021 12:43 am 
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Location: Pewaukee, WI
I'm sure there will be ATSC 3.0 tuners with HDMI output so any HD set will just need a cheap tuner add on. The older analog sets will need an HDMI to RF adapte on top of the tuner.


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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Thu 23, 2021 8:21 am 
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Joined: May Sun 07, 2017 11:35 am
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Location: Belrose, NSW, Australia
It's only taken you Yanks 20 years to catch up to the rest of us!
(Apologies for the little dig!)

COFDM (as used by ATSC 3) is really SO much better! Welcome!

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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Thu 23, 2021 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Austin, TX
Not too long ago I hooked an antenna up to my spectrum analyzer to trouble shoot some reception issues and noticed a strong 6MHz wide signal that didn't correspond to any known TV channels. I assume this was an ATSC 3.0 field test.

Unfortunately, there are currently no inexpensive ATSC 3.0 receivers available. It will be interesting to see if new features result in renewed interest in OTA TV, or if the lack of hardware causes it to lose viewers.

Also, ATSC 1.0 is heading toward being a low quality SD broadcast system since there won't be enough free channels to give everyone a HD signal.


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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Fri 24, 2021 12:53 am 
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Joined: Mar Tue 03, 2009 11:12 pm
Posts: 2009
Location: Great Bend KS
Not too many years ago there were too many times I had to rig up two vcr's and also watch a third channel because my favorite shows were on at the same time! Now there are very few shows I watch religiously anymore, and even if I miss one I don't sweat it. I find myself watching Metv or old vcr tapes from the 80's and 90's because most of the crap they are showing today just doesn't appeal to me. More and more the tv's hanging on the wall are rarely turned on!


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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Sat 25, 2021 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1796
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Most markets have ATSC 3.0 on the air now, usually several stations on a shingle 6 MHz channel.

As nobody has any programming the quality will be exactly the same as ATSC 1.0 which everybody switched to a few years ago.

If you look at it on a spectrum analyzer it looks just like ATSC 1.0's 6 MHz pedestal except there is no pilot on the lower side.

There are TV's being sold with ATSC 3.0 tuners.

I havent seen any converter box's yet.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Sat 25, 2021 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Jun Mon 24, 2013 3:00 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: Champaign IL 61822
ac wrote:

Also, ATSC 1.0 is heading toward being a low quality SD broadcast system since there won't be enough free channels to give everyone a HD signal.


All DTV around here is low quality, whether HD resolution or SD. Every subchannel of every station
is subject to abysmally awful breakups all the time. Sometimes even static cartoon-like ads will
show breakups. This is not due to reception problems, its simply too few bits.

ATSC 3.0 will be no better. The subchannel bitrate will be reduced to the point of abysmality, to coin a word.


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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Sat 25, 2021 11:13 pm 
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
dtvmcdonald wrote:
ac wrote:

Also, ATSC 1.0 is heading toward being a low quality SD broadcast system since there won't be enough free channels to give everyone a HD signal.


All DTV around here is low quality, whether HD resolution or SD. Every subchannel of every station
is subject to abysmally awful breakups all the time. Sometimes even static cartoon-like ads will
show breakups. This is not due to reception problems, its simply too few bits.

ATSC 3.0 will be no better. The subchannel bitrate will be reduced to the point of abysmality, to coin a word.

The switch to ATSC 3.0 is making this worse. As I mentioned in my previous post, they have to put all the programming for two stations on one transmitter.
As I understand it, under no circumstances will the FCC allow one station to have two transmitters.
When they can drop ATSC 1.0 things will improve. That will be quite a while from now.

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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Sun 26, 2021 12:48 am 
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Location: Ohio 45177
I watch more news on my computer than TV. I guess they will make more money off the addicts and some of us that watch very little may break the habit altogether. Until prices drop anyway. More hardware at the curb?

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 Post subject: Re: Here It Comes
PostPosted: Sep Mon 27, 2021 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1760
Location: Townsend, Ma.
KTVI- 2 Used come in up here in Massachusetts in the good old TVDX days as did KYTV-3 in Springfield on occasion.


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