Forums :: Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives
Support This Site: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently Jul Wed 17, 2019 3:32 am


All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Wed 08, 2014 2:37 am 
Member

Joined: Dec Sun 16, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 539
Location: Minnetonka, MN 55305
I just purchased a "detonator" Panasonic 8 track player. I ordered an 8 track on ebay so I could test the player. All went well until the 8 track tape broke at the splice where the metal strip is located. I've looked at some you tube repair videos but none mentions what kind of tape to use for splicing. Any suggestions?

_________________
"CIVILITY IS RECIPROCAL"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Wed 08, 2014 7:04 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 31990
Location: SoCal, 91387
Just use ordinary Scotch cellophane tape to mend it.

_________________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\He Who Dies With The Most Radios Wins//////////////////


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Wed 08, 2014 9:47 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Sat 20, 2008 12:26 am
Posts: 4699
Location: Viola, KS 67149
Yep what Fifties said. Or purchase the the 200+ mostly country 8 track tapes I have for $20 and play away. :shock: Even has one signed by Bill Gaither. I think that's who it is?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Oct Wed 08, 2014 3:11 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct Mon 05, 2009 10:14 am
Posts: 367
The other day @ a friends repair shop I HEARD AN 8 TRACK!!!! (I havent heard one in many years)

Boy did it sound good...... ANALOGUE IS BEAUTIFUL :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Thu 09, 2014 2:39 am 
Member

Joined: Dec Sun 16, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 539
Location: Minnetonka, MN 55305
Scotch tape. Just as I'd hoped. Back in the 80's my mother-in-law owned a Mercury Monarch. It was a spare car for when guests visited her in Los Angeles. My then young children loved the Charlie Rich "Behind Closed Doors" tape that we played on the factory 8-track; "The Most Beautiful Girl" track especially. I have the unit, will soon have the tape repaired and we'll have our own time machine.

_________________
"CIVILITY IS RECIPROCAL"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Thu 09, 2014 2:59 am 
Member

Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 14344
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
I haven't heard an 8-track since the 60s. At that time I didn't know there was any way to repair them. Some 8 track machines were bad about eating tapes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Thu 09, 2014 3:24 am 
Member

Joined: Dec Sun 16, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 539
Location: Minnetonka, MN 55305
Repairability was news to me as well. Split the case, replace the pressure pad with dried out foam backing using 3M weather strip and splice the break. Never done it but about to find out if it works.

_________________
"CIVILITY IS RECIPROCAL"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Thu 09, 2014 4:22 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 31990
Location: SoCal, 91387
The 8 Track technology was fraught with problems, including machines eating tapes, and cartridges with tape coming apart, usually at the metal strip, as the OP experienced. Some of the cartridges were a nightmare to disassemble, with any hope of putting them back together the same way.

As they aged, the pressure pads disintegrated, and tape coming loose became more prevalent. Also, the rubber wheels on each end of the cartridge would harden over time, causing a variety of problems.

In spite of all that, about 15 years ago I bought a NOS Motorola 8 Track player, and had an auto radio shop install it in the front of the console of my then '97 Chevy Monte Carlo. Tammy Wynette would serenade me going to and from work, lol.

Since 8 Tracks are dirt cheap, the best approach is to buy a number of them to use as donors for parts, if you are into 8 tracks. Believe it or not, up until a few years back, Radio Shack used to sell an 8 Track tape splicing kit, complete with the foil tape. I bought one on eBay some years ago. For the pressure pad, you can use Frost King 3/8" foam weatherstrip, which has a sticky side for adherence.

_________________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\He Who Dies With The Most Radios Wins//////////////////


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Sun 12, 2014 7:13 pm 
Member

Joined: Feb Mon 06, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 2589
Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
fifties wrote:
Just use ordinary Scotch cellophane tape to mend it.
Coming from an archival and repeated-use perspective - BBBBZZZZTTTT thank you for playing. (WINK)

The adhesive on ordinary cellophane tape is prone to having the cellophane become brittle and oozing out the sides which will then jam your 8-track in the player, catching the splice on the capstan and winding it around until it snaps again.

Genuine Quantegy (Ampex) blue splicing tape that's been the radio and recording standard for the past 30 years is available for a pittance all over eBay as is sensing foil, leader tape a splicing block and any other type of editing supplies you may need.

Depending on if you have a CBS, Ampex, GRT RCA or Capitol tape will depend on how it is disassembled.

For GRT there are five tabs on the bottom which must be carefully bent back to separate the halves. RCA's have a threaded stud near the top center on the back which must be drilled out and extracted and then replaced with a short wood screw o the same type. CBS carts have the tabs on the front - either one in the middle under the label and one near the back of the cartridge - or the same thing with three or five tabs. Some Ampexes HAVE no tabs and are welded sonically. Best you can do with that is split them and then Krazy-Glue them back - being VERY careful not to get too much on. Capitol usually has a screw under the label and may or may not have tabs as well.

Also be wary of GRT rubber rollers tendency to turn into a mass of black goo. There's no getting it off the tape - the only thing you can do is edit out the piece with the goo on it and have a skip in your tape or get a different copy.

And be aware of plastic rollers tendency to chip and crack - thereby cutting the tape. Replace with rubber versions wherever possible.

_________________
2 kinds of men/tape. Low Noise/Wide Range.
LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Sun 12, 2014 10:37 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 31990
Location: SoCal, 91387
ndiamone wrote:
fifties wrote:
Just use ordinary Scotch cellophane tape to mend it.
Coming from an archival and repeated-use perspective - BBBBZZZZTTTT thank you for playing. (WINK)

The adhesive on ordinary cellophane tape is prone to having the cellophane become brittle and oozing out the sides which will then jam your 8-track in the player, catching the splice on the capstan and winding it around until it snaps again.

Thx for the correction. Actually I meant to say, "Magic Mending Tape", which should remain pliable, and won't ooze. It's simply a readily available item.
ndiamone wrote:
Genuine Quantegy (Ampex) blue splicing tape that's been the radio and recording standard for the past 30 years is available for a pittance all over eBay as is sensing foil, leader tape a splicing block and any other type of editing supplies you may need.

I understood that he was only concerned with one tape. If someone has a collection of them, however, then your references would certainly be justified.
ndiamone wrote:
Also be wary of GRT rubber rollers tendency to turn into a mass of black goo. There's no getting it off the tape - the only thing you can do is edit out the piece with the goo on it and have a skip in your tape or get a different copy.

Although I haven't tried it, I would believe that either "Goof-Off", or "Goo-Gone" might be able to clean the rubber off of the tape.

_________________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\He Who Dies With The Most Radios Wins//////////////////


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Mon 13, 2014 2:41 am 
Member

Joined: Feb Mon 06, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 2589
Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
fifties wrote:
Although I haven't tried it, I would believe that either "Goof-Off", or "Goo-Gone" might be able to clean the rubber off of the tape.
Those are both petroleum based products and will therefore also negatively affect the tape, the same as most formulations of alcohol. Like most readily-available solutions, this has a degree of undesirable side effects, so make sure you have a crap tape to test them on first before trying them out on a tape you care about.

_________________
2 kinds of men/tape. Low Noise/Wide Range.
LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Tue 14, 2014 5:08 am 
Member

Joined: Dec Sun 16, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 539
Location: Minnetonka, MN 55305
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It is true that I have just one tape to repair but like many of you there is a box of 8 tracks somewhere in the house that I am now determined to find. Having learned the hard way that these things are going to self-destruct I may choose to purchase the proper materials just in case. I'll report my results.

_________________
"CIVILITY IS RECIPROCAL"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Tue 14, 2014 5:16 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 31990
Location: SoCal, 91387
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REALISTIC-8-tra ... 27ee26e2d8

_________________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\He Who Dies With The Most Radios Wins//////////////////


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Tue 14, 2014 5:36 am 
Member

Joined: Dec Sun 16, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 539
Location: Minnetonka, MN 55305
Thanks to fifties. I placed a bid. This is such a great group!

_________________
"CIVILITY IS RECIPROCAL"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Tue 14, 2014 10:30 pm 
Member

Joined: Feb Mon 06, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 2589
Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
That will get you off the ground for the one tape you wish to repair right now, but eventually you are going to want to get a REAL kit made up of:

Xedit/EdiTall Splicing Block
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Tape-splicing ... 27ee46705f

NEVER GET THE WOODEN OR PLASTIC ONES
They work about three times and then become firewood or a door stop.
Only the aluminum blocks will hold the tape in place prior to applying the splicing tape.
Simply lay each side of the tape in the block - graphite-(lubricant i..e. shiny) side up, hold down over the razor blade slot with your forefinger and thumb - and slide the razor blade through the channel. Do the same with the other side. Remove the loose ends and apply splicing tape diagonally across the edit. Yes your tape will now have a skip in it, albeit very small.

The only time the perpendicular splice is used is for the channel-changing foil since you want to minimize program loss in the three-inch-or-so space between the end of one program and the beginning of the next. In that case - the sensing foil needs to be placed at a diagonal across the perpendicular splice.

Prior to splicing the tape back together - check for tension. Correct tension is observed when the tape pack has no ``loose'' revolutions i.e. a gap between one revolution and the next while tape can be pulled easily from the center without snagging. If your tape should become packed, (until you learn how to do this in-cart without messing it up worse) wind the tape onto another reel in the PLAY mode for the low torque without threading through the capstan - and then reverse the reels and wind it back again - or spin the reel with your finger.

In both cases - rub the splice back and forth within the splicing block with the back of a single-edge razor blade (bought in packages of 100 - each blade is good for about 10 or 20 splices before becoming too dull to use if kept in its' holder - see the rectangular one second from the top)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Razor-Blade-Ref ... 3f2e23f349

and then take the corner of the razor blade , press into the outer edge of the splicing channel and shave off the excess on the top and bottom being careful not to cut into the tape. Peel the excess off before removing the tape from the block at a 45 degree angle.

Cassette, Super8 Video and half-inch versions for Betamax and VHS are also available.
Always use the 45-degree angle when splicing, then simply butt the two ends

Half-inch Quantegy (Ampex) Sensing Foil and Splicing-Tape-Kit-ACFOIL-AC1S94B1-NEW-Maxell-RMGI-/191162752496?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c82301df0

Never get the 7/32 (reel/8track) or 0.10" (cassette) version - you waste so much tape doing that it's ridiculous. Just get used to laying a length of splicing tape diagonally across the tape you are repairing.

If you plan on doing a lot of these - a rim-drive reel to reel works perfect:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MAYFAIR ... 43d0bf2466

and that's only if you can't find a cart-winder http://www.ebay.com/itm/BE-Broadcast-El ... 1428605132?

which makes life a LOT easier especially if you want to load your own and make whatever albums you want out of shells that are still good but the tape, roller, lube and pressure pads have gone bad.

Which I still do.

About ten years ago I inherited a boatload of 8-tracks nobody wanted that were still in the wrapper. I soon found out why. They were factory rejects because they had been duplicated at 7-1/2 IPS instead of 3-3/4 - so - single albums took up the same tape as a double album would have normally - so the only way to play them was to de-activate the MUTE circuit on players that had a FAST FORWARD option built in.

There were also some quads - which of course CAN'T fit FOUR TIMES the normal amount of tape in a standard 8 track shell - so whoever the greenhorned tape op was - simply sent for a double-load of the same empty cartridge and went ahead.

I got lucky - in the case of the double albums in this lot which are housed in quad shells (some are discrete others are decoded from a matrix master) there was almost always a `B' tape to every `A' tape I found - which of course had zero indication on the cart label that there even WAS an `A' or `B' tape - because it was of course supposed to have all been duplicated at the right speed.

So now I do the same thing. I have a Fostex 8 channel quarter inch tape player
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fostex-Model-80 ... 1c4753648e that I had professionally modified to both PLAY 3-3/4 IPS but also RECORD with the proper pre-emphasis equalization which - without going back to my engineering manuals from grad school - I'm guessing is either 35ms or 50 ms since cassette at half the speed is 120 for normal and 70 for chrome.

Which got me to thinking - if I was going to blow people's minds - why not do it with all this leftover back-lubricated Cr02 chromium dioxide tape I inherited when BASF did a test run of it back when EE reel to reel tape was starting to hit big.

The intended market was of course broadcast carts - so that the FM stations that could NOT yet afford digital could get a brighter sound on their all-cart music program - but by the mid-80's, digital was starting to take off and CD burners were becoming affordable - at least for the bigger radio stations - so it kind of died on the vine.

The only real adopter was the airline industry - originally for its' cockpit voice recording machines - (which to this day is still the only decent place you can get new quarter inch back-lubricated tape without paying a mint for it - same with wires for a wire recorder in the 40's) - but then people were complaining about the muffled sound on the by-now 1-7/8 IPS music cartridges used in flight.

So for a couple of years there in the early 80's - airlines were using the ``leftover'' chrome back-lubricated tape that - get this - wasn't good enough for the cockpit voice recorders - and got used in the inflight music systems instead before the digital 8MM multi-track systems came out a couple years later.

By 1985, hot on the heels of VHS and Beta HiFi, the Sony EV-S900 (Hi8), Sony EV-S800, Sony EV-S700U, and Pioneer VE-D77 were able to record five additional PCM tracks compared to the single pair on normal Hi-8 decks by using the space normally allocated for video - and allow for tracks up to 4 hours apiece in LPCM mode single-direction in a play-and-rewind affair.

So I started recording at 7-1/2 on my high-bias modified Fostex 8 track reel to reel with this chrome tape that gave 15 IPS fidelity at 7-1/2 - recorded through my old all-tube Ampex pre-amps and amps - loaded em into some raggedy old 8-track shells - had guys in my 64-and-a-half neon-green Mustang driving up the coast - and blew people's minds just for the hell of it.

_________________
2 kinds of men/tape. Low Noise/Wide Range.
LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Wed 15, 2014 3:43 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 31990
Location: SoCal, 91387
GSD wrote:
Thanks to fifties. I placed a bid. This is such a great group!

With the only bid, looks like you were the lucky winnah!

Actually, the splicing block is made of metal, and that's really the most important component for tape splicing/repair.

Keep us updated on your repair!

_________________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\He Who Dies With The Most Radios Wins//////////////////


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Wed 15, 2014 4:11 am 
Member

Joined: Dec Sun 16, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 539
Location: Minnetonka, MN 55305
Yes, I'm the lucky winner. Ironic that modern technology facilitates a quick solution to a vintage problem. Fifties send me a link. I click on it, place a bid and the solution to my old 8 track tape problem is achieved. Thanks again. I will report back.

_________________
"CIVILITY IS RECIPROCAL"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Wed 22, 2014 5:07 am 
Member

Joined: Dec Sun 16, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 539
Location: Minnetonka, MN 55305
The Radio Shack tape repair kit arrived. The block is plastic and perfect for my limited purposes. The splicing tape is too wide and methinks I'm making this a bit more complicated than it is. I lined up the tape ends, applied some 3M frosty tape and called it good. A repair video I watched suggested manually rotating the tape reel through a complete cycle. This is an excellent suggestion. I found that the "center feed" was erratic. It appears that tape this old has a tendency to bond with itself to some degree. This causes a reverse loop that eventually stops the tape feeding from the center. Probably the reason why mine broken initially. As I rotated the tape a 1" section emerged that was really mangled. I'll monitor this section the next time it emerges but will probably remove it for splice #2. Once I'm content that the tape is feeding uniformly from the center I'll tackle the pressure pad.

_________________
"CIVILITY IS RECIPROCAL"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Wed 22, 2014 7:13 pm 
Member

Joined: Feb Mon 06, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 2589
Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
GSD wrote:
The Radio Shack tape repair kit arrived. I found that the "center feed" was erratic. It appears that tape this old has a tendency to bond with itself to some degree.
This is why you need a SMALL tube of graphite powder you can get at the art or automotive store. Before you cycle the tape too many times without it - causing it to bind to itself once again - get the super-fine-grain kind and tap 2 or 3 pinhead-size dots on the top of the tape pack in different areas (center, midway out and near the edge of the tape pack) and THEN start winding it through a cycle.

This will then work the graphite back into the lubricated side of the tape, minimizing or eliminating the stickiness.

If that doesn't work, then you need some of the same dry silicone lubricant used in machine shop maintenance - also ultra fine grain - and then do the same with that.

Be careful you don't use film-gate lubricant - this will stiffen the tape just as it does with film - and reduce the necessary flexibility needed to come out of the center wind its way through the playback path and wind back up around the outside.

There is no Undo for the lubrication process. If you used the wrong one - you just have to throw it out and get another one.

_________________
2 kinds of men/tape. Low Noise/Wide Range.
LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8 track repair
PostPosted: Oct Thu 23, 2014 5:06 am 
Member

Joined: Dec Sun 16, 2007 4:59 am
Posts: 539
Location: Minnetonka, MN 55305
Cycling the tape has loosened the center feed. I have used the fine graphite lubricant in other applications and found that it goes everywhere. Applying small amounts, as suggested, still results in graphite on both sides of the tape. How does this affect the play function?

_________________
"CIVILITY IS RECIPROCAL"


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  




























Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB