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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: Mar Wed 04, 2015 6:31 am 
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Tom Schulz wrote:
Certainly new sets that used tubes were not being made in 1988. But those TVs certainly did still exist in 1988 and people were still having them fixed. The price of the tube on the 1988 price list was what a do-it-yourself person would have to pay to fix their set. Some people would pay it.
I think we've lost track of the original statement that prompted my reply. It was

"Happen to have a 1988 RCA tube price list folder and that tube lists for $34.00 The tv's it fit sold for $130 I believe!"

I took that to mean a $34 tube in a new $130 set (and exclamation at that one tube's cost vs. the TV set price), not 'repair' or what a DIY would spend, and the only thing I've contended all along is there weren't any new sets being made with tubes in 1988.


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: Mar Mon 09, 2015 12:03 pm 
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SteveT wrote:
For giggles, a 2CW4 nuvistor sold for 38.30, 3DS3 was 41.85,a 6J7 was 51.35!! What I thought was interesting, the 12SK7, 12SA7, 12SQ7 tubes were all 40.00! This is all 1988 dollars. Now that made people switch to solid state table radio's in a hurry!


Wonder if that was done on purpose to get people to dump the old tube sets?


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: Apr Sat 06, 2019 11:04 am 
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Location: British Columbia
Tube Radio wrote:
SteveT wrote:
For giggles, a 2CW4 nuvistor sold for 38.30, 3DS3 was 41.85,a 6J7 was 51.35!! What I thought was interesting, the 12SK7, 12SA7, 12SQ7 tubes were all 40.00! This is all 1988 dollars. Now that made people switch to solid state table radio's in a hurry!


Wonder if that was done on purpose to get people to dump the old tube sets?


An old thread, but those 1988 RCA prices sound a lot like the Phillips/ECG prices that were posted in the 1980s. I remember someone gave me a RCA radio-phono combo, in the early 90s, and it came with a card inside with some ECG price quotes from the early to mid 80s. They wanted something like $25 for a 6SK7, and even higher prices for the rectifier, and power outputs. I think what they may have been doing was posting what I call "go away and don't both us" prices. I have doubts as to whether they even had much of an inventory, they probably stocked whatever they had based on the previous year's orders by combing the NOS market for inventory, which they would rebadge, rebox, and sell if someone was desperate enough.
By 1988 a new colour TV set was down to the $150-350 range, the low end being Korean imports, just about anyone wanting to tinker with old sets would have bought used or NOS tubes, not ones through a TV shop. As for the radios, five tube Ac/Dc were common garage sale fodder, you could get ones with broken cabinets anywhere between free and a few bucks with the tubes, good ones for under $10, nobody would consider paying $40 for one tube in one of those. Tube TVs weren't much better, maybe $20-30 at most for a 60s B&W portable.
Regards
Arran


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: Apr Sat 06, 2019 3:45 pm 
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Location: Powell River BC Canada
Distributors were selling GE tubes at 1/3 list price for 1-9 and 50 and over
at 1/2 list in 1962. A large TV service company, with say 10 trucks could
get an order of 1000 assorted tubes to sell for double what they paid.

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de
VE7ASO VE7ZSO
Amateur Radio Literacy Club. May we help you read better.
Steve Dow
ve7aso@rac.ca


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: Apr Sat 06, 2019 4:51 pm 
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Location: Lawrenceville, Illinois 62439
Here are those tubes before they combined numbers. Even had different prices in my 1976 Sylvania price list.


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: Apr Sat 06, 2019 10:17 pm 
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Location: Powell River BC Canada
In the late fifties Japanese companies that were spin-offs of
American brands had entered the replacement tube field and
were able to sell in markets that previously locked down by
dealership (authorized distributor) crap.

The 1962 GE/Westinghouse Canadian retail price list of all the tubes
had only 1 tube that sold for over $10.(but less than $14). That tube
had a 117 volt heater.

So the tube companies were essentially fighting a mountain of inventory
battles by offering TV shops the reason not to use the imports. The reason
was the GE or Westinghouse brand.

TV shops however still could take an additional 20 % profit by loading
caddies with imports and using the published GE/Westinghouse price
card.

The imports did not furnish anywhere near the number of types. They
concentrated on the AA5 150 mA single ended octals and miniatures, and
the bread and butter TV tubes used in thermionic rectifier sets, that had
their last gasp by cheap rebuilt CRTs.

Early 60's transistors were here, and the tube profit for shops was gone.

Most of the tube caddy guys were looking for work elsewhere.

That is how I remembered it.

I lucked into a good life because of good eyes (circuit boards), and a
knack for tape recorders. (bottom line imported electronics)

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de
VE7ASO VE7ZSO
Amateur Radio Literacy Club. May we help you read better.
Steve Dow
ve7aso@rac.ca


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: Apr Tue 09, 2019 11:33 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 08, 2007 6:47 am
Posts: 4465
Location: British Columbia
Many of the guys I knew, who used to be in the repair business, used to buy from electronic surplus places, it kept their prices competitive, and allowed them to repair things the other shops were scared to touch.
Regards
Arran


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: Apr Tue 09, 2019 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Sep Thu 23, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 11410
Location: Powell River BC Canada
Thinking about 1988, again, there was a demand for tubes, including
those on the receiving and small industrial/transmitting price list that
had nothing to do home radio sets.

They were used in many applications of older tube equipment that
was not replaceable without major capital outlay.

Those tubes had very very high prices.

I remember pH meters on racks that had 6E5 tubes in control
rooms behind the panels. The operators used old instruments,
some with paper roll charts, yet there was a Honeywell TDC2000
console to operate. There was a major incident, where operators
were scrambling to understand some readings, right before.
One factor later found was a stuck pen on one of the paper charts.

About two after I started there in the 80s, I worked on a crew
that transplanted an old transistorized speed control system from
a machine originally built to run on steam, to another machine that
had panels of 6L6 amplifiers doing the same job. Those speed
controllers were Amplidyne. At the other end of the plant, a few
years before on another machine, they had given the Amplidynes
and their 6L6 amplifiers the boot and replaced them with GE 3100
SCR based units as the front end of the Ward Leonard drives.

Tubes hung on for years right up into the 90s.

When I retired, they gifted me the plant's last tube checker,
a B&K 747b, and the last vacuum tubes in mill stores, several large cartons
full.

_________________
de
VE7ASO VE7ZSO
Amateur Radio Literacy Club. May we help you read better.
Steve Dow
ve7aso@rac.ca


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: May Thu 02, 2019 7:12 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1826
Location: Near Portland, OR
The 38HE7 had a few slightly stronger characteristic ratings compared to the 38HK7.

Damper peak inverse plate voltage: 38HE7, 4200 volts; 38HK7, 3700 volts
Pentode section peak plate volts: 38HE7, 5000 volts; 38HK7, 3500 volts
Pentode minimum grid 1 voltage: 38HE7, -80 volts; 38HK7, -66 volts
Damper voltage drop at 350 ma: 38HE7, 21 volts; 38HK7, 16 volts

All the other characteristics are identical between the two tubes.


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: May Fri 03, 2019 2:49 pm 
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Location: Beaver Falls, PA. USA
The big reason that solid state color TV took off was the astonishing jump in picture quality and brightness, compared to the 1954-72 tube sets. The introduction of the black matrix CRT, around the same time, was another factor. Of course, by that time, those older sets usually needed new CRTs.

I did replace the CRT in a mid 1960s RCA color set, for an elderly couple, back around 1977; they moved to Florida and took it with them!

When the tube equipment was still in service, there were a lot of technicians maintaining it, and they were all making money.

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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: May Mon 27, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1471
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
I owe my first house to Curtis Mathis.

They made a 25 inch color set in a Console cabinet that required six strong lads to get out of a house or trailer.

As I recall the Chassis was an RCA design and usually required a dozen 6GH8's and a new CRT. As I recall the 6GH8 retailed for about $7,00

The shop I worked for rebuilt CRT's which would last a good month and then the lads would have to go drag it out again for warranty work.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: May Wed 29, 2019 10:48 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 08, 2007 6:47 am
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Location: British Columbia
Tim Tress wrote:
The big reason that solid state color TV took off was the astonishing jump in picture quality and brightness, compared to the 1954-72 tube sets. The introduction of the black matrix CRT, around the same time, was another factor. Of course, by that time, those older sets usually needed new CRTs.

I did replace the CRT in a mid 1960s RCA color set, for an elderly couple, back around 1977; they moved to Florida and took it with them!

When the tube equipment was still in service, there were a lot of technicians maintaining it, and they were all making money.


It was probably improvements in picture tube design more then anything else accounting for picture quality, inline guns, aperture grills rather then shadow masks, and new phosphors. I read somewhere that the energy crisis of the mid 70s had a lot to do with Solid State chassis winning the day, although I'm not sure how much of a difference it would have made to the average power bill. I suspect it was more to to with the cost of the technology coming down, and the reliability improving, though G.E was making tube and or hybrid sets up until 1979-80 just because they owned their own tube plants, and had lots of compactrons in stock I guess.
Regards
Arran


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: May Wed 29, 2019 10:57 am 
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Posts: 4465
Location: British Columbia
jimmc wrote:
I owe my first house to Curtis Mathis.

They made a 25 inch color set in a Console cabinet that required six strong lads to get out of a house or trailer.

As I recall the Chassis was an RCA design and usually required a dozen 6GH8's and a new CRT. As I recall the 6GH8 retailed for about $7,00

The shop I worked for rebuilt CRT's which would last a good month and then the lads would have to go drag it out again for warranty work.

Jim


They did use a clone of one of the mid 60s CTC chassis, could have been the CTC 17 or 23. One month is a pretty short life for a rebuilt CRT? Curtis Mathis has to have been the most overrated, overpriced, brand out there, earlier colour sets used late model RCA chassis, later models used N.E.C chassis imported from Japan, both were packed into hideous particleboard cabinets. But don't tell Glen Waters this or you might get knocked off his Christmas card list.
Regards
Arran


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: May Wed 29, 2019 11:25 am 
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Arran wrote:
Curtis Mathis has to have been the most overrated, overpriced, brand out there


Somewhat disagree. They were of good decent quality like a lot of USA made things were and quality wasn't cheap to make.

Arran wrote:
hideous particleboard cabinets. But don't tell Glen Waters this or you might get knocked off his Christmas card list.
Regards
Arran


Perhaps the later sets looked more ugly as the quality went down due to the flooding of the market of the cheap imported TVs.


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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: May Wed 29, 2019 1:36 pm 
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Location: Beaver Falls, PA. USA
I used to repair one of those CM RCA clones for an elderly woman up the road from me. As I recall, it was from the early 1970s.

By 1979-82, the quality of consumer electronics had started to decline badly, which led me to the broadcast and commercial audio fields.

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 Post subject: Re: 38HE7/38HK7
PostPosted: May Wed 29, 2019 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1471
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
I was actually thanking Curtis Mathis.:)

I believe the chassis was identical to a CTC24 which I haven't looked at in 50 years.

The RCA version was no better than the Clones.

To fix one of these sets we would re-solder almost everything on the main PC board which included the grounding lugs, tube sockets, and power resistors. We didn't replace paper capacitors very often. These sets were in daily use and had lasted a good long time but the internal heat cooked them.

Many TV repair shops were into rebuilding which was more profitable than using off the shelf.

Jim


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