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 Post subject: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Fri 12, 2019 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2074
Location: Waukegan, IL
I still have the digital tv converter boxes I had from the 2009 changeover. I keep hearing about the channels going to new frequencies. Do i need a new box, or simply rescan? I usually dont watch tv anyway. I hooked up the box and i get no channels. Tried rescan and still no channels. DTV reception was always poor for me, but i at least got a few fuzzy channels. Now i have none.

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Tony Pignaloni


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Fri 12, 2019 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Feb Thu 28, 2019 7:48 pm
Posts: 616
Location: Lawrenceville, Illinois 62439
How much time has lapsed since you last used it? Something may have happened to your outside antenna or feed in cable.
Do you or a neighbor have a small flat screen with a digital tuner which you could use to troubleshoot your antenna system?
Dan


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Sun 14, 2019 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1695
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
You can always re-scan your converter box even though channels are jumping around due to what is called FCC Re-Pack.

Some TV stations sold out and will completely disappear. most will re-materialize and possibly show up as a sub-Channel.

Coming soon is what is called ATSC3.0 and no converter box or TV set currently available can receive ATSC3.0.

I say currently available, as there are several ATSC3.0 broadcast stations on the air in several cities called "lighthouse station" being used for evaluation. Most major TV manufactures make ATSC3.0 sets such as Samsung and LG. These are not available for purchase.

I believe the FCC is accepting application.

I believe South Korea has already switched to ATSC3.0.

I believe there is no plan to make ATSC3.0 converter boxes for NTSC TV sets.

I have two converter boxes and one is dead and the other has crappy audio.

TV broadcast now exists on channels 2 through 36 and T-Mobile now owns most of the spectrum above 36.

My community was region 0 last year for re-pack and I don't know what level they are now at, but it goes to 9.

Jim collecting vinyl


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Tue 16, 2019 10:05 am 
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Joined: Aug Sat 19, 2017 6:55 am
Posts: 179
Location: Glendale, AZ, USA
Jim,
Since you are local (I'm in Glendale), I have a question regarding this.
We just got rid of our cable (haven't watched it in at least 9 months) and I got bored and fired up my tv using my older (couple of years at least) digital ota antenna.
I had heard that the channels were reduced to the 30's, but I am still getting some at both 44 and 45.
Shopping channels,Buzzr, movies.
Should I be expecting these to dissappear or move shortly?
I haven't rescanned in a couple of years.
Thanks,
Russ

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Unless other wise noted, I am only interested in the electronics, not what it looks like. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Tue 16, 2019 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Apr Sun 15, 2012 3:10 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: Buffalo, NY
NO, Unless your existing converter has a hardware failure, you should not need a new converter box.
Plugging in Waukegan, IL to Tvfool.com you should have plenty of channels available there.
Granted, not even using a Zip code here, so could be way off, but guessing you should
have lots of options and that whatever your Issue, it is on your end.
Where is your antenna? Keep in mind the FCC planning assumptions assumes the user has an outdoor antenna
10m above ground.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapp ... 04d06085cf


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Tue 16, 2019 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2074
Location: Waukegan, IL
I need an indoor antenna. I rent. I guess im out of luck then. None of these darn indoor dtv antennas i have pull in stations

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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Tue 16, 2019 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1695
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Adressing Russ's questions.

Television stations recently started going through what is called FCC Re-Pack. This condenses the broadcast spectrum down to a band of 6 MHz wide TV channels between channel 2 through 36.

This relates to the RF frequency assigned to the channel number.

When Digital television was first on the air in the late 1990's, TV stations got an additional (companion) channel for digital. In the case of Russ who received the Phoenix AZ OTA TV station KUTP chanel 45 for analog NTSC, KUTP-45 used channel 26 as the digital companion. In 2009 I personally turned off the KUTP channel 45 transmitter forever. I should mention that I personally turned on the 45 transmitter in 1985.

For TV stations to keep their logos and identity, the digital stream contains what is called PSIP data this tells your digital TV receiver to name KUTP RF chanel 26 to 45.1. When you punch in 45.1 your receiver tunes in RF channel 26 which carries a stream that carries the HD signal for 45 which we have renamed FOX-10-EXTRA. The same stream also carries the SD signals for 45.2 Movies! and 45.3 Buzzer. . . . . and in the same stream is 10.2 which is an SD version of FOX-10 HD. All defined by PSIP data.

As of today there are no TV stations broadcasting on a channel higher than 36. There are three station in the VHF band (2 through 13) which are KAET-8, KSAZ-10, and KPMX-12. All the rest are on a UHF channel. All but two UHF channel in Phoenix AZ contain an operating station. In Phoenix AZ, VHF channels 2 through 7 are vacant as are 9, 11, and 13.

I will mention that channel 35 in Phoenix AZ is broadcasting ATSC3.0 digital content for expiermental purposes.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Wed 17, 2019 2:32 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 15, 2012 3:10 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: Buffalo, NY
I wouldn't give up so easily....
Give this a whirl some time. It is small enough to fit in just about any size window and once u have materials on hand can be built in less than an hour.
Use your imagination... I built several of these from scotch / 3M Copper Tape and threw this .ppt together (of the first one) a few years ago to demonstrate how simple it is.
It would be perfect for an apartment.
Works like a champ here.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HheUK ... IDtbCTriiQ


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Wed 17, 2019 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Jun Mon 24, 2013 3:00 pm
Posts: 1522
Location: Champaign IL 61822
jimmc wrote:
Adressing Russ's questions.
"As of today there are no TV stations broadcasting on a channel higher than 36."
Jim


I presume you mean in Phoenix.

We still have several above 36. One is a low power analog channel 39.
Thus, my old tube CT-100 TV still receives pictures directly off the air,
if you want to hear shopping spiels over TV.


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Wed 17, 2019 5:13 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1695
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Phoenix was Phase 0 for the re-pack. We had channels on the air all the way up to 51 in Arizona. As of today there is nothing on the air above 36 and no analog that I know of in this market, T-Mobile has already occupied their spectrum.

We had to re-pack several TV translators stations including take one station off the air. No translators or LP's in Arizona above 36.

TV stations had an option to sell their spectrum at auction or move to a new channel below 36. T-Mobile won most of the auction spectrum and then they send the station a letter telling them to sign off by a certain date.

The Full power stations that had to re-pack could get some compensation from the FED for the cost of transmitters and antennas and tower crews, The low-powers and translators got nothing although I believe T-Mobile paid some PBS afilliates.

My employer had the letters by January 2019.

I'm not sure what happens to the channel 6 FM stations. They may have just had to shut off the visual carrier.

I do not recall the Drop-Dead date for the final phase of Re-pack but it is coming soon and in the end there will be no analog, NTSC TV on the air and nothibg above RF channel 36.

Digital TV does not seem to get along with the VHF channels and there are few below 6, and the stations above 7 don't enjow good signal propogation.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Wed 17, 2019 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Mar Sun 01, 2009 10:27 pm
Posts: 5295
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Off topic:
I wonder how we can ever transition to ATSC3.0 . I would think that stations would have to broadcast on both the current digital standard and on the ATSC3.0 standard for a while. But with the re-pack there will be no spare channels to available to do that.

On topic:
I have 5 digital converters in use. Four of them have never had a problem. The Digitalstream from Radio Shack failed. But it was not a case of failing to receive channels. It was unable to do anything including bringing up any menus. They used some very bad electrolytic caps. When I replaced the caps it came back to life. My brother's Digitalstream did the same thing and was fixed the same way. His two Zeniths work with no problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Wed 17, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Apr Sun 15, 2012 3:10 pm
Posts: 1054
Location: Buffalo, NY
One solution is to temporarily channel share. The FCC has said they will allow stations join forces and channel share during
the interim period while waiting for ATSC3 to be deployed and /or devices to hit the street. Entirely up to the stations themselves
how they wanna deal with it, or even if do anything at all. Doubt any one will actually do anything but test the technology at this point, with no devices or viewers yet.

Yeah, STBs are not immune to Bad caps. Most STB failures I have seen were caps in the power supplies. But yeah, can fail anywhere.
Still have a few Zenith converter boxes but haven't had a real use for them in years.


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Sat 20, 2019 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 270
Location: Madison, wisconsin 53718
trainman wrote:
I still have the digital tv converter boxes I had from the 2009 changeover. I keep hearing about the channels going to new frequencies. Do i need a new box, or simply rescan? I usually dont watch tv anyway. I hooked up the box and i get no channels. Tried rescan and still no channels. DTV reception was always poor for me, but i at least got a few fuzzy channels. Now i have none.


Try using a small inline preamp, works for me when I am in my Basement/garage testing
like this one or similar, usually you can find at hardware store-home depot

https://www.amazon.com/ANTOP-Smartpass- ... way&sr=8-4


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Sun 21, 2019 4:01 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1074
Location: Detroit, Michigan
I use an Insignia(there is also a Zenith branded model that is the exact same thing I believe) over the air DTV to NTSC converter. Yes, as others have said, this current thing going on is just a channel reshuffle, no new DTV converter required, just do a re-scan. On my box at least, I still have to do some finicky'n around to select the proper channel, as there will be 2 of each of any channels that changed, the old dead channel with no signal, and the new one. So far, I have deselected the old channels in the channel edit, and when that didn't work for some reason, have marked the new channels as favorites. Still experimenting with this, if this doesn't work, I'll have to see if a way can be had to clear the entire existing channel memory, and do a fresh re-scan. Coming next is the ATSC 3.0, which will not be compatible with current equipment. From what i have read, Voluntary roll out has begun this year. Stations must transmit the current ATSC 1.0 along with the ATSC 3.0 for 5 years after they adopt it. Full adoption by stations that are going to do it is expected by 2023. In that time, things like NTSC 3.0 converter boxes and tv's with the tuners and such are expected to hit the market. Some reading I saw here...

https://www.tablotv.com/blog/what-cord- ... ut-atsc-3/

https://www.tablotv.com/blog/what-cord- ... -3-part-2/


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Sun 21, 2019 5:42 am 
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Joined: Mar Sun 01, 2009 10:27 pm
Posts: 5295
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Kevin Clark wrote:
I use an Insignia(there is also a Zenith branded model that is the exact same thing I believe) over the air DTV to NTSC converter. ..... if this doesn't work, I'll have to see if a way can be had to clear the entire existing channel memory, and do a fresh re-scan.

That box has two types of scan. The first type clears everything and then scans. The second type does not clear anything. It just scans and adds what it finds. This second type gets into trouble if a station moves onto a RF channel that used to be used by another station. If you have an antenna rotater, you first do the scan that starts with a clear memory. Then move the antenna around doing the add scan as many times as it takes to get everything.

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Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jul Sun 21, 2019 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Mar Sun 01, 2009 10:27 pm
Posts: 5295
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
For the Insignia and Zenith boxes, Menu -> Setup -> Auto Tuning will clear the memory and then do a scan. Menu -> Setup -> EZ Add will leave the memory as is and then scan to add anything found.

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Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jan Tue 14, 2020 1:56 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1074
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Tom Schulz wrote:
Kevin Clark wrote:
I use an Insignia(there is also a Zenith branded model that is the exact same thing I believe) over the air DTV to NTSC converter. ..... if this doesn't work, I'll have to see if a way can be had to clear the entire existing channel memory, and do a fresh re-scan.

That box has two types of scan. The first type clears everything and then scans. The second type does not clear anything. It just scans and adds what it finds. This second type gets into trouble if a station moves onto a RF channel that used to be used by another station. If you have an antenna rotater, you first do the scan that starts with a clear memory. Then move the antenna around doing the add scan as many times as it takes to get everything.


I finally got around to doing this, and it worked like a champ, no more landing on old dud channels. Thanks for the great advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jan Tue 14, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 993
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
When ATSC 3.0 is formally rolled out, it is my understanding that it won’t be comparable with our current system. Is this true?

Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jan Tue 14, 2020 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1074
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Dennis Banker wrote:
When ATSC 3.0 is formally rolled out, it is my understanding that it won’t be comparable with our current system. Is this true?

Dennis



Yes, from what I understand this is true, and starting this year, 2020 ...but the broadcasters will be required to also transmit in the current system for a few years after they convert to the new system to ease the transition. I'm just hoping somebody will see the need and there will be new 3.0 DTV converter boxes available for older tv's as with the original DTV transition, for over the air tv use for my old tv's.


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 Post subject: Re: Do I need a new DTV Converter Box
PostPosted: Jan Tue 14, 2020 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1695
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
ATSC3.0 is on the air NOW in several states. There are no TV sets being sold to the public today, but I understand the roll out is coming within months.

It will get a name like 4K or more K, or UHDTV.

Major TV set manufactures are fine tuning their receivers, This includes Samsung, LG, and Sony and maybe a couple of others.

I have not seen any converter boxs available, your current HD TV is ATSC1.0 and it is not compatable with ATSC3.0.

I expect to see TV stations keep their ATSC1.0 on the air and combine with other stations for ATSC3.0


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