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 Post subject: My old russian TV wishlist on the ETF site!
PostPosted: Jun Thu 06, 2019 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Apr Fri 28, 2006 12:46 pm
Posts: 1158
Location: Düsseldorf/Germany
Hi folks!
About 3-4 times a year I like to visit the ETF site from the museum
in Ohio.
So that day I was in the mood to check out whats new.
Then I saw that:
https://www.earlytelevision.org/russian_postwar.html

Heck, it was in 1992, a long time ago that I created that wishlist!
In 1992 I visited Gleiwitz, today in Poland and a very old nice TV-
repairman gave me a lot of stuff, traded against older color TVs I
collected from curbside.
Among all that stuff was a russian manual book, like Sams/Riders,
covering all repair informations on all 1946 russian TVs up to about
1957.
Because no western collector saw these rare sets before and I wanted
to get them for my collection I copoed and placed the images on an
DIN A3 size paper, add infos in english (radio, speaker with arrows),
copied it many times and did spread it in eastern countries during
the mid 90s.
It is difficult to motivate people from ex-communist countries, result
was no reply, no success. :evil:
However I was able to buy some of these sets from other sources. :wink:

Today I still have the original and some copies on the attic.
Btw., what you still see there is only the right side of the paper, the rest is
missing.
Courtesy of SIXMILLION DOLLARMAN :mrgreen:

Regards,
SIXMILLION DOLLARMAN

PS. It was not my intention to make other collectors horny with it,
but just that happened!
8)

_________________
From all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most
ScottyBeamMeUpThereIsNo 4/3-TV/AM OnEarth


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 Post subject: Re: My old russian TV wishlist on the ETF site!
PostPosted: Jun Sun 09, 2019 3:10 am 
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Joined: Jun Tue 14, 2011 6:44 pm
Posts: 327
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Have you managed to find a москвич т-1? One of my favorite television receivers! Very very difficult to find.


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 Post subject: Re: My old russian TV wishlist on the ETF site!
PostPosted: Jun Mon 10, 2019 2:18 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 734
Location: Crystal Bay, NV
Hello 6M$Mensch.
Your English is very good, but "horny" is not the word you are looking for. It has only sexual meanings. A better word is "jealous".

Angelo in Italy has an old Russian set that he obtained while on a work assignment in Russia.
He was able to get it out of Russia only be disassembling it and mailing it in pieces.
The Russians have some peculiar export rules.
I'm sure your best bet is in the former republics like the Ukraine or Belarus.
I purchased a 1870 pendulum clock on EBay from the Ukraine, and it was sent by Postal Mail. No problems or duties.
=====
Ron


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 Post subject: Re: My old russian TV wishlist on the ETF site!
PostPosted: Jun Mon 10, 2019 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Apr Fri 28, 2006 12:46 pm
Posts: 1158
Location: Düsseldorf/Germany
Hi and sorry for the delay, but I was out of town.

@ Ron
I used "horny" because it is translated with the german word "geil".
It has at first a sexual meaning but now just little children are using it
for everything if you discribe that somebody is hot on something. :mrgreen:

Ron, you are right, since many years, or let us say since about the time
Putin was "elected" for president, it is impossible to get antiques, incl.
50s stuff, out of Russia.
Btw. they can import stolen cars from Europe without problems.
I had people from Poland with russian colleges and they were send back
with that kind of stuff.
THANKS for the flowers about my "broken english" :D , just reading this forum
is teaching me daily to write better. :wink:
School english, AFN radio, BBC radio and three visits in your beautiful
country had given me elementary knowledge.

@ vts1134
Not one of my russian TV sets, roundies and rectangular ones, came directly
from Russia!
My three T-2 Leningrad were all produced in East Germany and then exported.
I have/had 3 KbH-49 (russian letters!) The second and third I bought ended up
as parts sets.
I own a couple of other russian TV sets and radios, some of them were exported
officially as Ron said to other communist countries.
Some are built there (Rembrandt and Wisla), some were regular exported to make
western cash. But these sets are rectangular sets from Finland with finish writing
on the set.
Some roundies were exported but not sold in bigger numbers. The czech and polish
people hated the russians because of their invention. So they both ignored russian
products. Another reason is that the russian CRTs didn´t last long!
A czech TV repairman told me that they like to implode!
Only the smallest and the biggest round tube is a problem to interchange. For
the rectangular sets we have our good old Philips/Valvo CRTs.
Ex-communist countries had landfills, too, even in the communist time.
So there are not many surviviors.
The Moskvitch (1946) and the t-1 Leningrad were not sold in bigger numbers.
They were AM-sound receivers and with the introduction of the KbH-49 in late
1948 they presented the first FM-sound TV receifer on our continent.
I think it was the first and last time that they placed a modern invention.
In that time Europe was closeby totally dark! :cry:
Good old England was saving its pre-war standart and France was working with
a mix of the french-pre-war standard and that was left by the germans after D-Day.
From that what was left a big part of it was destroyed.

A passed friend who had an old teacher for his master in TV repairing had
destroyed a lot of stuff by his own, he told him!.
He did worked for the german television in Paris during the occupation..

Because of the result of WW-II the old pre-war alliance of Italy, Germany and Spain
was damged and blocked to go on with television on the place they stopped during
the war.
Belgium was the only country building a few TV sets to receive television from France.
But still had no idea about an own or european standart.
Only Philips from the Netherlands had the power and knowledge to bring televison in
Europe back on new rails.
IT IS STILL DIFFICULT to find out why we took the russian 625 lines with FM sound.
Officially because of political reasons nobody wanted to deal with an enemy, just because
of political interests!
From my vintage sources I can tell you that the americans were kicked out as they
tried to sell their american standard. 525 lines was not enough!
The french didn´t wanted something from the USA or England, were starting with experimental
819 lines television. Belgium was parted again, the french spoken people wanted
the french standarts, the ductch spoken society wanted to go with the Netherlands
and Germany.
The belgian government wanted to start with something own. Just for the reason not
to be overrolled by the dutch, french and german industry.

So now to come back on russian TV sets, this KbH-49 was the first mass-produced
625 lines FM-sound TV-receiver.
It was produced up to 1961 or longer, have that not present for the moment! Some
minor updates were done. This TV-receiver was sold
for a low price, same background as the Volksempfänger radio in Germany.

Regards,
SIXMILLION DOLLARMAN

_________________
From all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most
ScottyBeamMeUpThereIsNo 4/3-TV/AM OnEarth


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 Post subject: Re: My old russian TV wishlist on the ETF site!
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 1:15 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 734
Location: Crystal Bay, NV
In the 1950's a computer program was made to automatically translate English to Russian and vice versa.
It may not be true, but this is the story:
A test was made of some common expressions, first into Russian and then back into English.
The first was "Out of sight, out of mind" meaning we do not think about it when it is gone.
The double translation came back "blind and crazy".

The second comes from the Bible (Mathew 26:41)
"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak".
That came back as:
"The whiskey is agreeable, but the meat has gone bad".
-----------------------------------------
Bu the way, I am not aware that US manufacturers tied to sell our 525 line standard in Europe.
625 x 25 is about the same as 525 x 30 frames/second. I.e. about the same horizontal frequency (15,625 vs. 15,750).

======
Ron


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 Post subject: Re: My old russian TV wishlist on the ETF site!
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 6:47 am 
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Joined: Apr Fri 28, 2006 12:46 pm
Posts: 1158
Location: Düsseldorf/Germany
TahoeTV wrote:
In the 1950's a computer program was made to automatically translate English to Russian and vice versa.
It may not be true, but this is the story:
A test was made of some common expressions, first into Russian and then back into English.
The first was "Out of sight, out of mind" meaning we do not think about it when it is gone.
The double translation came back "blind and crazy".

The second comes from the Bible (Mathew 26:41)
"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak".
That came back as:
"The whiskey is agreeable, but the meat has gone bad".
-----------------------------------------
Bu the way, I am not aware that US manufacturers tied to sell our 525 line standard in Europe.
625 x 25 is about the same as 525 x 30 frames/second. I.e. about the same horizontal frequency (15,625 vs. 15,750).

======
Ron


And what we do learn now from that story? NEVER trust a computer and learn your life, education, and languages
by the hard way! :wink:

The german electronics mag called "Funkschau" wrote always articles about the background of technical evolutions.
Their authors were present on U.A.R. meetings and comparable parties.
They wrote that the americans were angry not to be able to sell their system in europe. Switzerland, a very rich
country had small experimental television with the US standart.
Denmark, Sweden and Austria said that they wanna see if that what Philips and german companies wanted to do
will work.
I understand german very well :mrgreen: , so the case is very clear.
In that point of view it is interesting that a country like Australia, political position and language british, decided
in 1956 for the european CCIR system!

The same repeated with the introduction of color television. Several countries and companies had experimental
televison with NTSC, but decided proudly to PAL!

You have to realize the bandwidth problem, too! Belgium started in 1953 with a dual standard system in their
country. The french society got their 819 lines system with AM sound, but with a reduced bandwidth! The
different size to the french standard leaded to an awful picture.
Philips laughed about the belgium politics. They said to Belgium: "What ever you create as a TV Standard, we
shall deliver you TVs!" About 8 years later (around 1960) Philips had over- and undertaken 95% of the belgian
TV industry.
More than 20! companies were gone or only the name was kept to give the customer a good feeling.

I don`t think that any other collector has that knowledge collected by literature and sets showing the history
of TV standards, import/export TV sets and sets which were assembled or constructed outside the mother country
to get a foot in the neighbors door.
As I said before, I am using original sources, not that wiki stuff, to get a better overview. :wink:

Regards,
SIXMILLION DOLLARMAN

_________________
From all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most
ScottyBeamMeUpThereIsNo 4/3-TV/AM OnEarth


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 Post subject: Re: My old russian TV wishlist on the ETF site!
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Nov Thu 11, 2010 6:03 pm
Posts: 883
Location: Pewaukee, WI
If someone lives in a country that has or had a prolific TV industry obtaining a collection that represents a complete evolution of technology and brands is in it's self a major challenge. I will probably never have every American set I find significant... Many collectors do have some foreign market sets there are CT-100s and other American sets In Europe and vice versa...I just bought my second foreign market set (a IIRC Italian market Phillips from the 60s). When I was a kid I had an 80s Toshiba multi standard set with a European plug that I had to relinquish in a move.


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 Post subject: Re: My old russian TV wishlist on the ETF site!
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Apr Fri 28, 2006 12:46 pm
Posts: 1158
Location: Düsseldorf/Germany
Electronic Memory wrote:
If someone lives in a country that has or had a prolific TV industry obtaining a collection that represents a complete evolution of technology and brands is in it's self a major challenge. I will probably never have every American set I find significant... Many collectors do have some foreign market sets there are CT-100s and other American sets In Europe and vice versa...I just bought my second foreign market set (a IIRC Italian market Phillips from the 60s). When I was a kid I had an 80s Toshiba multi standard set with a European plug that I had to relinquish in a move.


Yes, you are right, thats a big challenge. It costs a lot of money and you get always trouble
with the customs..... :twisted:
I love these curious TV sets with there unusual stories! I don´t know any collector who
searches for them like I do.
I don´t know collectors outside Australia owning a collecton of the first australian TV sets,
have early sets from Argentina, Brasil, Bulgaria, Portugal and Japan.
Maybe there are people out there telling that they have japanese TV sets, but they are
no roundies or 14"/17" - 70° sets.
I can tell you, that I was the first one who brought american roundies to Germany (as a
collector), the members of the US-army had them of course.
There was no collector who ever saw a GE train or a 7"Motorola portable. That was in 1990
and 1991.
Even Motorola Germany (mobile phones) didn`t know that they were made. In 1990 I went
with one to the service department asking for a schematic and they told me that they never saw a TV set like
that.
I have Telefunken TV sets made in Italy, Spain, France, Belgium, Siemens made in
Portugal, Italy, Belgium, Austria, a Bush TV 22 with CCIR 625 lines/FM sound.
I have german TVs labeld from companies in Sweden, an East-German TV made for
the czechs.
Very rare are TV sets from Switzerland, nothing can beat that. It is told, that they
produced only 600-800 TV sets in the 50s by 5-6 companies! I have 4 made by 3
companies.
A really funny set is my Bauknecht TV. Bauknecht is known for high quality kitchen
machines (ovens, fridges). The belgians were so hot on "Made in Germany" that
Bauknecht ordered from a belgian company TVs with the Bauknecht label!
There were belgian companies with a german name or german writing on the set
to give the customer the idea that thex just bought a german TV set! Isn´t that
funny?
Unusual is a french TV set, made during the french occupation of the Saarland with
a german brandname but with the french 819 lines standard.
But I have so many more unusual TV sets whick I saved from the dump or
getting lost elsewhere.
Now I am busy with other projects to learn something about international television.

Regards,
SIXMILLION DOLLARMAN

_________________
From all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most
ScottyBeamMeUpThereIsNo 4/3-TV/AM OnEarth


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 Post subject: Re: My old russian TV wishlist on the ETF site!
PostPosted: Jul Tue 02, 2019 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3663
Location: Monterey California USA
I haven't seen it in awhile but somewhere in my library I have a research paper style booklet written by an officer in the Army Security Agency, stationed in Germany in the early 1960's, on the state of the Soviet television industry by the early 1960's. Printed in a handful of copies, similar to a graduate thesis.

It indicates that the quality was particularly poor, that there were long waiting lists to get a television set, and that the newspapers complained bitterly that people were making appointments to have sets repaired before they had even taken possession of them! Apparently the quality of CRT production was poor - - one newspaper article quoted says that "...Sets are doomed to blindness soon after the buyer takes possession! What is wrong with our factories?" Thus I suspect these sets are rare today,

_________________
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California Highway Patrol Radio
Bell System Mobile Telephone History
http://www.wb6nvh.com


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 Post subject: Re: My old russian TV wishlist on the ETF site!
PostPosted: Jul Tue 02, 2019 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 14791
Location: Fernandina Beach, FL
TahoeTV wrote:
In the 1950's a computer program was made to automatically translate English to Russian and vice versa.
It may not be true, but this is the story:
A test was made of some common expressions, first into Russian and then back into English.
The first was "Out of sight, out of mind" meaning we do not think about it when it is gone.
The double translation came back "blind and crazy".

The second comes from the Bible (Mathew 26:41)
"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak".
That came back as:
"The whiskey is agreeable, but the meat has gone bad".
-----------------------------------------
Bu the way, I am not aware that US manufacturers tied to sell our 525 line standard in Europe.
625 x 25 is about the same as 525 x 30 frames/second. I.e. about the same horizontal frequency (15,625 vs. 15,750).

======
Ron

Now that made me laugh out loud! But I too have seen that, many, many times...

_________________
Don


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