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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Sun 13, 2020 10:16 pm 
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Back in the day, I owned one of those Westinghouse color sets. What a beast.

Something like 50 tubes. DC restoration on all three colors. Three 3A3's in the high voltage.

The one I had was a 19". There was a Sam's for the 15" but not for the 19" version. Might have been #259. That I probably still have.

Enjoy your new acquisition.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Mon 14, 2020 4:24 am 
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Here are several pictures of the Airline:

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Looks like the TV chassis is the Sentinel 400TV! Not so surprising, since MW also rebranded the Sentinel 400TV in its suitcase form. What's interesting here is that this model is exclusive to Airline; I'm not aware of it existing with any other brands.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Mon 14, 2020 4:39 am 
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Tom, that Airline is in really good shape as those come. I've never seen one without at least some paint loss on the dial glass, but yours is exceptionally nice still even though there are small areas which are bad. You are correct, it's a Sentinel, with a clone of an RCA 45 changer that isn't an RCA product.

I have two of them, which have been waiting to find a reproduction of the glass before I get into restoration.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Mon 14, 2020 6:11 am 
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Tim Tress wrote:
Congratulations on scoring the Westinghouse! That's rarer than the CT-100.

Classic, what sets did you get?


Sorry I didn't reply a little sooner, I got 6 sets, a '49 rca metal table top, 9T246 or something like that, a Crosley 630 clone, 2 '50 Motorolas, both table tops, one 10" one 12", a Hollicrafters 16" console, and lastly a wood cased Motorola with an 8" CRT. The last one was mainly for parts as I have the bakelite version and know that the crts are rare.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Mon 14, 2020 7:21 am 
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Mr. Detrola wrote:
Tom, that Airline is in really good shape as those come. I've never seen one without at least some paint loss on the dial glass, but yours is exceptionally nice still even though there are small areas which are bad. You are correct, it's a Sentinel, with a clone of an RCA 45 changer that isn't an RCA product.

I have two of them, which have been waiting to find a reproduction of the glass before I get into restoration.

As I take a closer look at mine, I see that a fair amount of the dark brown paint on the back of the dial has flaked off. Perhaps I'll simply see if placing a dark brown piece of paper behind the dial will approximate the original look without further endangering any of the backside paint, which includes some of the lettering. The lettering seems to be pretty much intact.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Mon 14, 2020 7:21 pm 
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xmo wrote:
Back in the day, I owned one of those Westinghouse color sets. What a beast.

Something like 50 tubes. DC restoration on all three colors. Three 3A3's in the high voltage.

The one I had was a 19". There was a Sam's for the 15" but not for the 19" version. Might have been #259. That I probably still have.

Enjoy your new acquisition.

Pretty good recall the 15" has 44 tubes according to the Sam's photofact I have for it.

The 19" is extremely rare. They only made the 19" for a few months before the 21AXP22 obsoleted it. I hope yours survived in the hands of a collector.

The way I understand it RCA poured $6M in 1954 money into the development of the 15GP22 then in a few months CBS introduced their 19" version of it making the 15G instantly obsolete then a few months later RCA brought out their 21AXP22 and modified the CT-100 into the 21CT55 and that obsoleted the CBS tube. The interesting thing was both the 19" and 21" did away with the separate phosphor dot plate and deposited the phosphor directly on the inside of the CRT envelope....It was a CBS invention but RCA swallowed their pride and bought the patent from their rival CBS.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Mon 14, 2020 10:27 pm 
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Electronic Memory wrote:
Pretty good recall the 15" has 44 tubes according to the Sam's photofact I have for it.

The 19" is extremely rare. They only made the 19" for a few months before the 21AXP22 obsoleted it. I hope yours survived in the hands of a collector.

The way I understand it RCA poured $6M in 1954 money into the development of the 15GP22 then in a few months CBS introduced their 19" version of it making the 15G instantly obsolete then a few months later RCA brought out their 21AXP22 and modified the CT-100 into the 21CT55 and that obsoleted the CBS tube. The interesting thing was both the 19" and 21" did away with the separate phosphor dot plate and deposited the phosphor directly on the inside of the CRT envelope....It was a CBS invention but RCA swallowed their pride and bought the patent from their rival CBS.


I love this kind of obscure history! How did you come to know about the CBS invention and the 15, 19 and 21 inch CRTs?

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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Mon 14, 2020 11:06 pm 
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aj2x wrote:
Electronic Memory wrote:
Pretty good recall the 15" has 44 tubes according to the Sam's photofact I have for it.

The 19" is extremely rare. They only made the 19" for a few months before the 21AXP22 obsoleted it. I hope yours survived in the hands of a collector.

The way I understand it RCA poured $6M in 1954 money into the development of the 15GP22 then in a few months CBS introduced their 19" version of it making the 15G instantly obsolete then a few months later RCA brought out their 21AXP22 and modified the CT-100 into the 21CT55 and that obsoleted the CBS tube. The interesting thing was both the 19" and 21" did away with the separate phosphor dot plate and deposited the phosphor directly on the inside of the CRT envelope....It was a CBS invention but RCA swallowed their pride and bought the patent from their rival CBS.


I love this kind of obscure history! How did you come to know about the CBS invention and the 15, 19 and 21 inch CRTs?


Some combination of the early television museums website (and some early color sites now hosted there), period electronics magazines, and discussions here and on Videokarma about early color.
My interests in television span from Pre-war (though my collection has yet to include any TV set older than 1946) through the end of the tube era (for TVs that would be the 1978 model year GE portacolor). I've been reading almost every day for 10 years now so there is a good bit of trivia I know but no longer remember the exact source...


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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Tue 22, 2020 9:51 pm 
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Mr. Detrola wrote:


I have two of them, which have been waiting to find a reproduction of the glass before I get into restoration.


I restored the artwork when I rebuilt my set years ago. I have it in a high resolution PDF form so you can just print it on clear plastic, then spray paint the reverse side with gold for the background.

Most Printers don't print White, so you will lose the thin white outline around the letters, but it's hardly noticeable.

I glued the plastic to a piece of glass for this one, that was a huge pain to do without getting any bubbles trapped, but you can just slip the plastic in front of a clear piece of glass.

If you want a copy I will E-mail it to you if you PM me with your address.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Wed 23, 2020 3:52 am 
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The Westinghouse color set will be delivered tomorrow according to craters and freighters....

The auction house said they'd be mailing my other 2 items yesterday but I haven't been charged for that yet. I plan to check back tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Wed 23, 2020 2:31 pm 
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We're looking forward to pictures and restoration details!

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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Thu 24, 2020 1:23 am 
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Tim Tress wrote:
We're looking forward to pictures and restoration details!

Restoration complete! I work fast. :mrgreen:
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Okay, in all seriousness...this is shaping up to be an easy set. It arrived today unharmed and in better condition than the auction pictures had me expecting. The cabinet is really nice.
The auction listing claimed it was working in 2018 and showed it then with monochrome picture on it.
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After testing the 15GP22 and discovering it is one of the strongest specimens I have seen, I decided to ramp it up on my variac and see what it would do.
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IIRC Bob Galanters Westinghouse H840CK15 is still working perfectly on all original capacitors so I figured I'd probably get a raster.
She came up with sound and a completely defocused raster that showed evidence of synced video...And very noticeable arcing that I could see through the HV cage vents. That arcing was the plate cap lead of the focus rect....it had busted off the flyback lug it was supposed to be soldered to and was making a 1/16" arc. I soldered that back on and had focused monochrome.
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From there some control tweaking got me color. Color is a bit smeary and off, but it works!... I wasn't expecting it to just work that easily.
This is way too good for a $1700 1954 color set. :mrgreen:
The static convergence is also a mile off...but when I found one of the static convergence magnets sitting on the chassis before first power up I pretty much knew convergence wasn't going to be anywhere near right...
Another odd thing is theres no channel numbers showing through the prism above the channel knob... Tuning is guess and check the sound and picture.

This will be a fun project along side the Oldsmobile I bought yesterday. http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=273276


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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Thu 24, 2020 1:41 am 
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That set is in beautiful condition. A real treasure!

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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Thu 24, 2020 2:17 am 
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It's great news that the 15GP22 is still under vacuum! Are you going to try sealing it?

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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Thu 24, 2020 6:41 am 
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Tim Tress wrote:
It's great news that the 15GP22 is still under vacuum! Are you going to try sealing it?

I seem to recall the group at the ETF trying to get rebuilds going testing vacseal and similar on leaking tubes with their helium leak detector and discovering that it wasn't as effective as many had hoped.

Also I'm of the opinion that the brass evacuation stem hidden under the base is atleast as bad if not worse than the glass-metal-metal-glass ultor seal....It seems like the brass evacuation seal was used in a majority of early color CRTs but only a few of the later all glass types. The later all glass color CRTs mostly used glass evacuation stems, but some did use the brass stem...I've had probably more than 20 glass roundy CRTs in my collection, and only 2 of them had bad gas...the 2 that were gassy were both brass evacuation stem equipped.... you can have the best security on your front door but if your back door is a flimsy screen door you're still not secure.
Removing the base without snapping a lead off at the glass is usually quite difficult so rather than go to extremes to try to prevent failure with iffy solutions I'm probably going to leave well enough alone...


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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Thu 24, 2020 5:42 pm 
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No polymer sealant (this includes any type of brush-on material, epoxy, varnish, etc.) really works well long term against vacuum loss. All polymers are somewhat permeable to air and water vapor transport. As a temporary seal for a few weeks or months it will be helpful, but long term is helps very little.

The only good vacuum seals are combinations of glass, metal, or certain ceramics.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Sep Thu 24, 2020 5:56 pm 
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Tim Tress wrote:
It's great news that the 15GP22 is still under vacuum! Are you going to try sealing it?


Might have already been done. Bob Baker, the fellow who restored the set in the 1990s, had a bottle of vacseal.

Norman

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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Oct Sun 04, 2020 2:42 pm 
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And the winner for most unique set ..........................>>>>>>> https://auctions.mclarenauction.com/lot ... television


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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Oct Sun 04, 2020 8:22 pm 
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I'd have to set a chuck wagon or Lone Ranger and Tonto on top of that one!


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 Post subject: Re: Big Antique TV auction this weekend
PostPosted: Oct Wed 07, 2020 11:23 am 
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MEE TOO! :wink:
I was interested in one of the unsold TV sets.
I contacted this auction house and asked if they would
like to ask the owner for a price he likes to get.
I told them that my request is very serious.

They answered me that the stuff will be offered again in October.

O.K., so I asked for an approx. shipping rate and wanted to know
how I can bid and pay. I offered payment by Western Union or
bank transfer.

BUT THEY DON´T ANSWER!!!!!!!!!! :idea: :|
My question was send a few weeks ago.
Seems that they have no interest in german customers..... :evil:

Regards,
SIXMILLION DOLLARMAN

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