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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 02, 2020 12:46 am 
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Joined: Jun Thu 25, 2015 3:21 am
Posts: 1365
that is a good idea.

finding a repair man who was working on tv in the 50s and 60s will be hard if not impossible but there are guys who still do this work. check for any antique electronics clubs in your area. they might know someone who can help.

in my list of minimum test equipment i forgot to mention a tube tester. preferably a mutual conductance tube tester.

one thing is most tv repair books were written for people who allready knew how to service radio and want to learn how to troubleshoot tv. i was taught that basically a tv is a radio with other circuits added. if you dont understand something one of the people here can explain it. it may be easier to get a few radios working first there were a few correspondence courses to teach servicing back in the day. nri was one place that had correspondence courses anc the booklets for the cource sometimes turn up on ebay. i have one book in storage that was written to be used in a classroom to teach tv repair. i cant remember the name for sure but i believe iit is basic television repair. by marcus and levy if memory serves. you might try ebay or used book stores to find it.

a dim bulb tester is a good idea another thing i forgot. also is a variac comes in handy too.

a dim bulb tester is basically a light bulb in series with a electric outlet. you plug the dim bulb tester in the wall and plug the equiptment into the outlet in the dim bulb tester. for a tv i would use a 200 watt bulb in the tester. if the bulb comes on really bright you know there is a short somewhere. turn the tv off and clear the short before turning it back on. this also limits the current through the equipment.


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 02, 2020 12:55 am 
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Joined: May Thu 14, 2015 4:15 pm
Posts: 2642
Location: Dallas, TX
It might be possible to find someone in your area. That part of the U.S. has more people that do restorations than some others. You might put an ad in the "Classified" area of the forum here.
Also it might be possible to find someone to help through a local vintage radio club.

Here is a link to a pdf of a good book that was published in the 1950's.
https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF ... h-1955.pdf

Here is a good website on the restoration process. It deals mostly with radios, but most applies to TVs and as I stated radios are kind of the gateway to TVs. I say "restoration" rather than "repair" because with vintage electronics you usually find many things that need changing out rather than one or two parts. Some things simply do not age well, whether they are used or not.
https://www.antiqueradio.org/begin.htm

You will find lots of help here for the most part, but be aware it may take 6 months to get through the job. There are also different opinions on this forum. Where ever possible I would not buy vintage test equipment that will need to be restored before you can reliably use them. It also does not make sense for you to spend a lot on equipment you might only use once.
I think beside the tools mentioned, soldering iron, screwdrivers, nut drivers, pliers, wire stripper and a solder sucker are a good start.
A modern digital multimeter would be best. An analog meter (moving needle) is good for adjusting things, but you might be able to get by without a VTVM and use a simpler VOM.
Since there is light on the screen (raster) you wouldn't really need a CRT tester. If you CRT is bad you would need to get a new one and they go for around $ 100, IF YOU CAN FIND ONE. Sometimes this is a "deal breaker".
Cross your fingers you will not need to align the set. That takes a lot of more expensive equipment and it is complicated. If you are careful you won't do anything that will make alignment necessary.
There are a lot of capacitors (rather inexpensive) that have a very high likelihood of being bad, so those can be replace without any need to test them.
You can measure resistors ( inexpensive) and check coils (if needed) with a meter.
The television analyzers are nice since they can do the job of several smaller pieces of equipment, but I think you could get by without one.
An oscilloscope would be useful but they are relatively expensive and complicated learn to use.
We can guide you about good places to get parts.

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It's not the Destination, It's the Journey.


Last edited by Notimetolooz on Oct Fri 02, 2020 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 02, 2020 1:09 am 
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Joined: May Thu 14, 2015 4:15 pm
Posts: 2642
Location: Dallas, TX
One of the first steps is to determine the model number of the TV, it should be printed somewhere on the back. With the model number you can find the schematic and service info.

I found a radio club in New Jersey. Keep in mind most people only deal with radios, fewer people restore TVs.
http://www.njarc.org/

Unlike a radio which has fewer types of tubes so you can easily get a set of good tubes to try in the set, TVs have so many tube types that a tester would be a good idea. Someone in a radio club may be able to test tubes for you.

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It's not the Destination, It's the Journey.


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 02, 2020 1:10 am 
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Joined: Jun Thu 25, 2015 3:21 am
Posts: 1365
[quote="irob2345"]
In terms of test equipment, I take a minimalist approach. VTVMs are obsolete are obsolete and unnecessary, as are capacitor testers - you're going to replace the caps anyway, right?

not necessarily. no one i have heard of replaces the mica caps. however if you suspect a mica is bad you still need a capacitor tester.to find out if it is bad. also in my opinion you should always test the new capacitors before installing them just in case a bad one got past quality control. not likely it will be bad but it can happen.

as for a vtvm yes it can be replaced by a digital multimeter but they are a pain in the but to use especially for radio alignment work. for that matter anything digital is a pain in the but. just look at computers and modern cell phones a total pain in the but to use.

Many people will tell you that you MUST replace all the electrolytic caps. I have found this to be not necessarily so, electros often "re-form" with use. I only replace those that are defective or are leaking electrolyte.

very true electrolytics can sometimes be reformed.


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 02, 2020 2:04 am 
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Joined: May Sun 07, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 1149
Location: Belrose, NSW, Australia
Re mica caps - rarely do you need to replace them UNLESS they are in a circuit that puts 50+ volts across them. A look at the circuit diagram will reveal if such a cap is suspect. The problem is caused by silver molecules migrating across the mica under the influence of a voltage, and it generally takes 50+ years to happen. The symptoms are often long-term intermittent faults.
Micas that are in parallel with coils will just about always be OK and should not be touched unless you want to get involved in re-alignment.

If you are comfortable using a digital VOM you don't need an analog one. The analogy is - slide rule or calculator?

Tube tester? The TV / radio that a tube is plugged into is always its best tester. I never replace a tube without first measuring the voltages around it and confirming it is bad. Exceptions - broken glass, visually obvious defects and a tube that takes 5 or 10 minutes to "warm up", resulting in reduced height, width or hold not locking..

A tube tester may well tell you that a tube used in, say, an IF stage or a sync separator, measures 40%. That would likely not affect the performance of the TV. Tube testers will often tell you lies or mislead you. I never use them.

When checking resistors, note that 60 years ago 20% tolerance was common.

Here is a book that will teach you all you need to know - don't buy the new one!

https://www.amazon.com/Basic-Television ... B000RZPJ2M

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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 02, 2020 2:27 am 
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Joined: Sep Wed 30, 2020 6:20 pm
Posts: 11
Thanks. Is there a place you recommend to get caps and a diagram....I imagine ebay unless there is another online store


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 02, 2020 2:51 am 
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Joined: Jun Thu 25, 2015 3:21 am
Posts: 1365
Dmagee6270 wrote:
Thanks. Is there a place you recommend to get caps and a diagram....I imagine ebay unless there is another online store


allot of caps on ebay are about the same age as the ones in your set and you would definitely need to test them before using them. personally i like the red astron caps which is a reproduction of the red astron line of caps from the 50s made by jupiter condenser.. as modern manufactured they wont have the leakage problems as caps made in the 50s. you can buy them by calling jupiter condensers or checking out there web page. they have certain distributors shown on their web site. i prefer calling them on the phone rather than trying to order them online. there also websites that sell carbon comp resistors. search for carbon comp resistors to find them.

the older term for caps is condenser. allot of older service notes and books will call them condenser instead of cap. same part different name.


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 02, 2020 2:55 am 
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Joined: Jun Thu 25, 2015 3:21 am
Posts: 1365
[quote="irob2345"]Re mica caps - rarely do you need to replace them UNLESS they are in a circuit that puts 50+ volts across them. A look at the circuit diagram will reveal if such a cap is suspect. The problem is caused by silver molecules migrating across the mica under the influence of a voltage, and it generally takes 50+ years to happen. The symptoms are often long-term intermittent faults.
Micas that are in parallel with coils will just about always be OK and should not be touched unless you want to get involved in re-alignment.

all this is true as far as it goes. once you find a mica you believe is bad you still need to test it to make sure if it is bad. not all of us have a stock of condensers to test by substitution. not all of us have a stock of tubes to test by substitution either. therefore testers are still necessary.

what i was taught about tube testers assuming calibration is accurate and it is working properly is if the tube tests bad toss it. if the tube tests good it may be good but not necessarily. as i recall tubes in the horizontal and high voltage sections can test good but still be bad


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 02, 2020 3:15 pm 
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Joined: May Thu 14, 2015 4:15 pm
Posts: 2642
Location: Dallas, TX
Dmagee6270 wrote:
Thanks. Is there a place you recommend to get caps and a diagram....I imagine ebay unless there is another online store

Ebay is literally the last place I would buy stuff. I have gotten things there when is no other source.
There is a thread here for sources of things.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=201537

Many people like Sal's Capacitor Corner that has an advertisement in the right boarder of the pages here. Sal is a member of this forum. Don't expect to find every part you may need from one source.

When you find the model number we can point you to service info. The Early Television Museum website has some it for some models, there is a website called Radio Museum that might have some, and others that you can download for free. As a last resort you can pay for the info from Sams Photofacts website.

The closest I could find to your RCA on the Phil's Old Radio website is this earlier 1950 model. The article here would give you an idea of what could be ahead. His RCA didn't work as well as yours does.
https://www.antiqueradio.org/RCAT-100Television.htm
BTW, Phil is a member here also.

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It's not the Destination, It's the Journey.


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Sat 03, 2020 12:05 am 
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Joined: Sep Wed 30, 2020 6:20 pm
Posts: 11
Thanks everyone for the tips, the links, etc. I will try my best to get this baby running. I feel confident that I at least
have sound....my goal is to restore the inside and outside. I'll be happy with a couple channels and the back has a component
output so hoping to attach a DVD player at some point.....Thank god it's the weekend...I can now go back to all these replies
and take notes...thanks again.....


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Sat 03, 2020 1:03 am 
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Joined: May Thu 14, 2015 4:15 pm
Posts: 2642
Location: Dallas, TX
Once you get the RCA TV to receive correctly on channel 3 or 4 (which ever the converter is set to) you will be able to watch all the digital channels the converter will receive. All of the channel selecting will be done with the digital converter.
If the TV has a composite video input it would be very unusual. Maybe the set has been modified.

Still waiting on finding out the model of the TV.

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It's not the Destination, It's the Journey.


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 09, 2020 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1788
Location: Laughlintown, PA
I really admire your enthusiasm and zeal. You'll love having this TV working and people will be blown away when they see it...they'll be puzzled about why it's not color...that it's really "real" and so forth.

It's worth pursuing!

However, you are not grasping the difficulty of getting it working.

I am also an amateur, after working on radios for many years as a hobbyist, I finally tackled a couple TVs. They are VERY complicated and the basic capacitor replacement (not to mention adjustment or replacement of other parts such as resistors) is a BIG undertaking if you don't have a very basic understanding of what you are looking at.

I'm not trying to discourage you from getting it fixed - and being in NJ you have a decent shot at finding someone to do the work for you - but I don't think you will be able to do this yourself in the near future.

It looks like it will work - you have raster (screen glow) and sound - eventually.

I don't know if anyone answered your question about the age but I'd place it to mid 1950s. It looks like it has a rectangular CRT.

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"The 21st Century is a nice place to visit - but I sure wouldn't want to live there."


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Fri 09, 2020 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Sep Wed 30, 2020 6:20 pm
Posts: 11
Hi..thanks. my expertise is not even amateur yet...however I have found someone to help so hoping this works out! I'm looking forward to seeing it work. Based on other input looks like this TV is 1954


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Sat 10, 2020 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1788
Location: Laughlintown, PA
Again, I am no expert like many guys here, but I agree with around 1954.

Glad you have someone who can help you. Once it's repaired, it should work pretty well - by 1954 things had moved a long way from right after the war and the first years of TV. I had a 1948 set that had separate tuning for the sound...it took a lot to get used to.

The biggest thing you'll have to adjust to is that the set will take a while to literally warm up = you'll likely have to fine tune adjustments after that time to get it working just so. I have a 1950 set that is in storage now, hoping to get it home soon and praying it still works.

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"The 21st Century is a nice place to visit - but I sure wouldn't want to live there."


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Sat 10, 2020 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Jun Thu 25, 2015 3:21 am
Posts: 1365
have the repairman check anything in the video section past the point of the sound takeoff to get ur video back


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 Post subject: Re: RCA TV
PostPosted: Oct Sun 11, 2020 12:47 am 
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Joined: Sep Wed 30, 2020 6:20 pm
Posts: 11
Thanks...will let him know that. Really appreciate all the input

D


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