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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Tue 12, 2016 3:57 am 
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Location: Black Hills, SD 57745
What model is your tester? Do the three cells power different portions of the circuit? Carbon-zinc cells don't mind a bit of solder and cheap from the dollar store. Or bring out wires to connect to holders. I've used rubber bands or a few wraps of electrical tape to jury-rig a cell or two for a temporary lash-up.

I was gonna suggest sockets for testing at least.

You, John, a purist? Never woulda guessed! ;) :lol:

I bet all those caps were "rolled" to be 50uf, but one didn't make the grade and went to a different label imprinter and was thus kept in production, able to pass muster as a 10uf. So there ya go, right down to matching date codes that says they're from the same day's production. Or it could be that way only one machine was needed to make caps of several values in a single form factor.

Oval transistors. No wonder they're spendy!
-Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Wed 13, 2016 2:20 am 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
It's a B & K Model 162 Transistor/FET tester...

"Dug" it out of radio closet along with the manual & schematic---only two of the 1.5V "D" cells are needed for a "regular" transistor, the third is for FET bias... Thought the manual might have a procedure for "matching" transistors, but saw no mention. Guess I'll have to search on-line... Will split a couple of those regulated 5V, 2A "wall-warts" and look into dropping outputs to 1.5V.

Have never used this since I bought it used around 35 years ago in a "lot" of test equipment...

Too bad this set uses NPN's as I have a couple parts sets with good PNP pairs...

Need to get the 2N241 factory data to use as a starting point.

In my younger days, I'd probably have torn those caps open to look for physical differences---but since they are the originals (and have neat appearance), will keep them for future owner as I do with all my sets...

John


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Wed 13, 2016 7:13 am 
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Location: Black Hills, SD 57745
That's a full-featured tester alright. Found it here, $200 used: http://www.testelectronics.com/used/bk162.htm

The description does mention matching devices. I suppose that's mostly choosing pairs with similar Beta readings and low leakage. I had a similar B&K meter my dad bought me when I was a teen thinking of going into electronics repair. It had an AC supply, no batteries.

It was tedious to use, since every part had to be looked up to get the specs for expected readings. I lacked familiarity to know what to look for. I tried using it to troubleshoot a shorted-out Heathkit AA-15 amplifier but never did find the problem. Maybe it wasn't in the transistors after all. I dunno, I never fixed it and gave the Heathkit to a friend of my dad's, much to dad's relief, as my room was right below their bedroom and that amp when it was working kept him up at night. :)

I ended up selling the B&K a couple years later, literally too much bother to use. I just used a multimeter to test transistors for shorts or opens with no need to look 'em up. Can't say I've ever had a need to test an FET. Dad tried to set me up with some decent gear, but in retrospect a Cricket or simple go/no go tester would have been more useful and much cheaper to buy.

He also supplied me with some common transistor GE-brand subs. I still have a couple of those unopened. Germaniums, but all PNP. Nothing that might work in my parts stash either. :(

-Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Thu 14, 2016 2:48 am 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Hey Ed,

I bet you Dad was glad ! My younger sister was/is a drummer and man, you really can't sleep through that !

I bought one of those simple Radio Shack testers as a kid which simply lit up a neon lamp if transistor good and still have it, though the lamp is bad... Got a lot of use from that one ! I finally found the specs on the 2N214 & hope to find good subs...

Finally disassembled the cabinet this evening in preparation for cleaning/detailing/repair. There was around an inch of dust accumulated in the bottom edge of speaker. Hope to get at least it done this weekend... Pretty much decided to just tack-in some transistor sockets on pigtails to PCB to experiment with audio output transistors...

John


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Thu 14, 2016 8:32 am 
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I have the same RS tester. I got on a kick a couple years back to learn more about transistor testers and picked up a few to play with. The RS is still the one I go to. I might have a spare neon in the parts drawers, you can also hook a meter up to the output pin jacks or listen through an earphone.

I've cleaned out the radio room to repaint and repurpose part of the space to give the wife a pantry. So all my "stuff" is currently boxed and stashed elsewhere. I kept a portion of it where I can rummage through till I get things back in order. So far, I haven't come across any likely 2N214 subs for you, but I still have a box or two to peek at.

Dad wasn't happy for too long. My next stereo was an early RS 4-channel receiver. I got used to using headphones at night, and would wait till they left for work or went out in the evening to rock out. :cool:
-Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Thu 14, 2016 6:56 pm 
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John,

Usually a tube guy and was looking through this forum.
according to my 1972 Rs transistor sub book, the 2N214 subs to a RS276-2002
which subs to a 2SA221. Shouldnt be to hard to find or too pricey.
..For what its worth..

Don


Attachments:
w2002.jpg
w2002.jpg [ 119.81 KiB | Viewed 4028 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Fri 15, 2016 2:41 am 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Thanks much, Ed for looking ! Think I played with the output of that R.S. tester years ago...

And thanks, also, Don, for the sub---hadn't pulled my old mid-70's manual off the shelf yet... Need to look through my "2S" transistors to see what's there...

John


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Fri 15, 2016 11:15 pm 
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Location: Palos Verdes, CA
John - If you have any Universal Model PTR-62B 6 transistor radios that you've scrapped for parts, they may have 2 Toshiba 2SB56 transistors, which could be a replacement for the 2N214 transistors you need. The only transistor radios I have that use a 2N214 is the Sylvania Model 3102 "Thunderbird." - Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Sat 16, 2016 6:05 am 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Hey Mark, the 2N214 is an NPN transistor---not often used in P-P outputs that I could find...

Got the detail cleaning completed today as well as polishing the tuning window with Novus-2. The top was much dirtier than I thought and it took scrubbing with Windex to remove the greasy film. Both of the tuning dials had areas of rust and "blistering" of the paint, so cleaned VERY carefully/lightly with damp then dry soft cotton cloths. The inner speaker grille appeared to have been installed "wrong side out" from factory by the cutouts for frame mounting screws, so cut new notches and put the "shiny" side facing outward---looks much "snazzier"...

Installed Teflon insulated wire pigtails on PCB to allow experimenting with different transistors for the P-P audio output circuit---tried two of the NOS Sylvania parts I had (not matched) and the sound was much better than before, but somewhat "fuzzy". Will sure be glad to find a correct matched pair since this radio is such an excellent performer.

Radio is back together and looks pretty good---even with its flaws...

Have to divide the pics between two posts since there are so many. Please "click" on pics to see full-size image per new ARF policy.


Attachments:
1ARF 9562 FRT BARE CAB CLN.jpg
1ARF 9562 FRT BARE CAB CLN.jpg [ 216.7 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
2ARF 9562 INS BARE CAB CLN.jpg
2ARF 9562 INS BARE CAB CLN.jpg [ 243.35 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
3ARF 9562 GRILLE PRTS IN CLN.jpg
3ARF 9562 GRILLE PRTS IN CLN.jpg [ 245.38 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
4ARF 9562 GRILLE PRTS OUT CLN.jpg
4ARF 9562 GRILLE PRTS OUT CLN.jpg [ 223.89 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
5ARF 9562 GRILLE FRAME STUD DTL CLN.jpg
5ARF 9562 GRILLE FRAME STUD DTL CLN.jpg [ 171.82 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
6ARF 9562 HNDL PRTS SPKR CLN.jpg
6ARF 9562 HNDL PRTS SPKR CLN.jpg [ 235.79 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
7ARF 9562 GRILLE INSTLD CLN.jpg
7ARF 9562 GRILLE INSTLD CLN.jpg [ 202.95 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
8ARF 9562 SPKR INSTLD CLN.jpg
8ARF 9562 SPKR INSTLD CLN.jpg [ 187.09 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
9ARF 9562 CHS RECPD & TRNS PGTLS.jpg
9ARF 9562 CHS RECPD & TRNS PGTLS.jpg [ 194.92 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
10ARF 9562 CHS TOP VIEW.jpg
10ARF 9562 CHS TOP VIEW.jpg [ 178.96 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]


Last edited by xrhonda91 on Apr Sat 16, 2016 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Sat 16, 2016 6:08 am 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Below are the remainder of project pics---please see previous post for the first installment.

Also please remember to "click" on pics to see full-size image per new ARF policy.

John


Attachments:
11ARF 9562 CLND & ASSMBLD REAR.jpg
11ARF 9562 CLND & ASSMBLD REAR.jpg [ 152.06 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
12ARF 9562 CLND & ASSMBLD FRT RT.jpg
12ARF 9562 CLND & ASSMBLD FRT RT.jpg [ 192 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
13ARF 9562 CLND & ASSMBLD FRT.jpg
13ARF 9562 CLND & ASSMBLD FRT.jpg [ 228.51 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
14ARF 9562 CLND & ASSMBLD FRT LFT.jpg
14ARF 9562 CLND & ASSMBLD FRT LFT.jpg [ 215.22 KiB | Viewed 3977 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Sat 16, 2016 7:06 pm 
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Nice work John, once you have some "new" output transistors installed you will have a great set. Did you use anything besides "elbow grease" to make the knobs crystal clear again?


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Sat 16, 2016 8:25 pm 
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Location: Palos Verdes, CA
John - I should have looked more carefully when I went to the NTE "Transistor Cross Reference" site and it showed that you could replace a 2N214 transistor with a NTE103A. So when I checked on the specifications for the 2SB56 transistor, the NTE site showed it could be replaced by a NTE102A/NTE103A, but I should have seen that the NTE102A is a PNP transistor. Sorry! - Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Sun 17, 2016 4:04 am 
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Thanks Matt ! Just used my "stubby" toothbrush and dish-soap solution as usual. The volume knob did get quite a workout with Novus-2 where I picked/scraped off the red fingernail polish. Was amazed and thankful that they turned out so well---but they do have the typical stress cracks. Am sure looking forward to getting the proper transistors as this set is an excellent performer ! Am sure glad I finally got one...

Not a problem, Mark---am glad you took the time to comment !

John


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Sun 17, 2016 6:11 am 
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I got out my transistor stash for a better look and checked some on an assortment of my transistor testers. I located three vintage oval Germanium NPNs; a 2N306, 2N194 and 2N233A. All three cross to an NTE103A via the NTE website. The 2N306 tests the best, actually pretty "hot" at 125 or so hfe and leakage isn't bad. The other two test much lower, maybe around 30 hfe, but are close enough to one another to work as a low-output matched pair.

If you think they may help get your Arvin working better, shoot me a PM with yur address and I'll mail 'em off to ya!

I used an ATmega 328 Chyna do-all tester to identify leads and type. The hfe it reported did not agree with my other testers, it read much higher (215) than any of my others (112-125 or so). The hfe test on my Harbor Freight cheapie/free DMM did seem to match the readings my other vintage testers produced. For matching up transistors on hand, the ATmega does well, since the actual gain numerical accuracy isn't as important as finding pairs with similar readings. But to try to match one of mine to either of your 2N214, it looks like the HF Cen-Tech DMM would do the job as you likely already own one of those to test your transistors to see if one might be close to any of the ones I have here.

I compared readings on an Eico 680 and a Lafayette KT-223 and although meter scales and settings are open to a little interpretation, they did seem to give about the same gain measurement as the HF meter.

My Micronta neon tester also reported them as good, but difficult to guess the gain beyond a rough weak/strong reading. I didn't try it using a meter on the output jacks, which no doubt would have helped, but the reading wouldn't readily convert to the hfe number the other testers showed. The neon bulb is in a screw-thread base, but I hand-held the leads of a pocket neon voltage checker in the socket and it also lit up on a good transistor. Those cheapy checkers have a resistor built-in, so I figure without the resistor it might work as well as the original neon lamp in this Micronta.

The Eico and Lafayette are cool, not only because they're vintage, but they also test for other things to help service transistor radios. The Eico includes voltage and resistance tests, while the Lafayette has a 0-12V DC scale, an ~80 mV current scale plus a basic signal generator and in-circuit transistor tests. The ATmega will try to test any "passive" part plugged into it and can provide a lot of info on unknown parts.

-Ed


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TransTesters1.jpg
TransTesters1.jpg [ 70.92 KiB | Viewed 3952 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Mon 18, 2016 1:01 am 
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Thanks much for offer, Ed !

Think I'll wait awhile as I'd like to find an already matched pair if at all possible...

Interesting info on your various testers---I've already put the B & K back in closet until "motivation strikes" to build AC supply... Wouldn't be too difficult to "bust-out" a defective threaded-base bulb and solder a regular neon lamp in its place---need to check the ratings of original, though, to see if that would work...

John


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: Apr Mon 18, 2016 5:19 am 
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At least we added three presumably compatible numbers that might work as subs for a 2N214. If you want 'em later, I'll probably still have 'em. I'm guessing they were added to the junk drawers some 30 years ago.
-Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: May Wed 25, 2016 12:31 pm 
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Not trying to hijack the thread, but all the pictures I've seen show this radio with a cowhide finish. Here's a picture of mine that sports a faux alligator hide covering.
Attachment:
Arvin 9562.JPG
Arvin 9562.JPG [ 153.59 KiB | Viewed 3806 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: May Thu 26, 2016 2:18 am 
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Hey Rob,

Glad you posted ! That's a "snazzy" looking radio---is that a recent pic ? Pretty sure you e-mailed me one when you got it and don't remember it looking that nice...

Have you tried it out ? These are excellent performers and imagine they'd have pretty good sound with that 5" speaker (and good output transistors)...

Am still trying to find a good matched set of 2N214 NPN transistors or their Zenith versions, 121-59 so I can hear mine "singing" as it should !

John


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: May Thu 26, 2016 9:44 am 
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Hi John. I took that picture yesterday. Beside the usual stress cracking on the one of the knobs, it is also missing its bright. I haven't tried it as there is some corrosion from battery leakage. Not bad, but it will need to be cleaned up before I could try it. Now that I've found it again I will have to spend some time with it and see if it sings. Until I read this thread I never knew it had that fancy reversible dial.

You sure have yours looking good. I wish I could help you out with the transistors. I checked my new stash again yesterday but no luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Arvin 9562 project...
PostPosted: May Fri 27, 2016 3:27 am 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
If it weren't for that crazy 1.5V tap in battery compartment, it would be a lot easier to test !

Hope you get it up & running as I'd like your impression of its performance & sound.

There are a couple early Sylvania sets that use the same transistors in outputs, but finding a trashed one for parts would be difficult...

Thanks again for looking through your newfound stash...

John


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