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 Post subject: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Wed 27, 2019 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Mar Wed 27, 2019 5:42 pm
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Hello all, I recently acquired a very nice condition Zenith Royal 3000-1. The owners guide states to extend the antenna 16" at the 45 deg. angle for FM. I would like to understand the rationale for this guidance. I do not observe separate contacts between the 45 and vertical positions. And I am wondering if the 16" extension (which is 26.5 to the base of the waverod) is optimum for the FM band.
Further, if I extend to 16" only, can I utilize the 'fat' part of the antenna, or do i need to expose the thinnest sections?

This may be for an antenna forum but i wanted to start here with 3000-1 people.

Best, Mark

Sangean WR-11
Aiwa Ar-158
Arvin 32r43
Zenith RG74Y
Tecsun R-9012
Panasonic RF-562
Tecsun PL-880
Zenith R 3000-1
Zenith X334W


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 Post subject: Re: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Thu 28, 2019 6:24 am 
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Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 4464
Location: Sunnyvale CA
markgarris1 wrote:
Hello all, I recently acquired a very nice condition Zenith Royal 3000-1. The owners guide states to extend the antenna 16" at the 45 deg. angle for FM. I would like to understand the rationale for this guidance. I do not observe separate contacts between the 45 and vertical positions. And I am wondering if the 16" extension (which is 26.5 to the base of the waverod) is optimum for the FM band.
Further, if I extend to 16" only, can I utilize the 'fat' part of the antenna, or do i need to expose the thinnest sections?



I think that the idea is that 16" is about 1/8 of a wave, which should work OK as an antenna for low FM. The 45 degrees is presumably to split the difference between vertical and horizontal or circular polarization.

I just move it however it seems to work best, and that is usually vertical and fully extended.

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Thu 28, 2019 2:36 pm 
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Location: Annapolis, MD
If you could somehow see all the E-M waves in your location, you could design the perfect antenna and know exactly where to place it. As a practical matter, it's easier to simply adjust the antenna until you get the station of interest.....

Think of antennas as being a bit like the weather: Both are totally deterministic---but only if you have enough data. In the case of weather, the cost of getting "enough data" would likely exceed the GDP of the entire planet.....

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-Mark
"Measure voltage, but THINK current." --anon.


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 Post subject: Re: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Thu 28, 2019 5:00 pm 
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Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 4464
Location: Sunnyvale CA
pixellany wrote:
If you could somehow see all the E-M waves in your location, you could design the perfect antenna and know exactly where to place it. As a practical matter, it's easier to simply adjust the antenna until you get the station of interest.....

Think of antennas as being a bit like the weather: Both are totally deterministic---but only if you have enough data. In the case of weather, the cost of getting "enough data" would likely exceed the GDP of the entire planet.....



More than that, there is literally no way to know the classical and quantum state of every subatomic particle involved. But, they do pretty good (and much better than they used to) using approximate methods.

But from a practical matter, by the time it gets to you, no matter how it is generated, the FM signal gets to the end user, it's entirely a matter of luck. It has been reflected, refracted, absorbed and retransmitted many times. So it's just luck what you get, and it is also changing continously. If you had to use AM on these frequencies, it would be a disaster. Analog TV video, particularly UHF, had this problem for the entire time of its existence - the wind blowing frequently made a huge difference in the results.

So antenna selection, arrangement, etc, is ultimately black magic, or trial and error. What might work great for someone in some circumstance may be useless for someone else. Just move it around and see what you get!

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Thu 28, 2019 9:14 pm 
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Location: Ashhurst, New Zealand
Your instructions must be different to mine then. Mine says "Pull out two sections of this antenna for best FM reception" - I measured from the bottom of the antenna to the tip and got 27 inches BUT I see your error - you forgot about the bit inside the handle! 27 inches is very roughly a half-wavelength at 100MHz.

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Cheers - Martin ZL2MC


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 Post subject: Re: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Thu 28, 2019 11:49 pm 
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Location: Annapolis, MD
Brett_Buck wrote:
More than that, there is literally no way to know the classical and quantum state of every subatomic particle involved. But, they do pretty good (and much better than they used to) using approximate methods.

I was toying with moving to the quantum state---how is their tax structure? Any crime?

_________________
-Mark
"Measure voltage, but THINK current." --anon.


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 Post subject: Re: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Fri 29, 2019 3:35 am 
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Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 4464
Location: Sunnyvale CA
pixellany wrote:
Brett_Buck wrote:
More than that, there is literally no way to know the classical and quantum state of every subatomic particle involved. But, they do pretty good (and much better than they used to) using approximate methods.

I was toying with moving to the quantum state---how is their tax structure? Any crime?


It depends on when you ask.

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Fri 29, 2019 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Mar Wed 27, 2019 5:42 pm
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My best properties are in the solid state.


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 Post subject: Re: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Sat 30, 2019 10:52 pm 
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I've read similar instructions in various radio owner's manuals over the years. I think like another poster said, it's to deal with the different polarizations.

As for practical use, I find that angling the antenna helps me bring in some FM stations over having it straight up, or horizontal.

Horizontal seems to help null stations more. YMMV.

Sometimes moving the radio a foot or so helps, too. FM is strange that way.


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 Post subject: Re: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Sun 31, 2019 1:10 am 
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Joined: Mar Wed 27, 2019 5:42 pm
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Yes I believe the angle is a bow to polarization ...

http://www.astronwireless.com/topic-archives-antennas-polarization.asp

quoting the above ,,

"In the early days of FM radio in the 88-108 MHz spectrum, the radio stations broadcasted horizontal polarization. However, in the 1960's, FM radios became popular in automobiles which used vertical polarized receiving whip antennas. As a result, the FCC modified Part 73 of the rules and regulations to allow FM stations to broadcast RHC or elliptical polarization to improve reception to vertical receiving antennas as long as the horizontal component was dominant."

It may be moot - rather it is moot - as I can not distinguish audibly between angled and vertical,.

Back to the drum light ... I am going with the proposition that it requires the battery to function. Even if one removes the 8 vbatteries, the light battery is required. I read that when the 12 V adapter is connected that the battery is disconnected. I have not experimented to see if the drum illumination is likewise cutoff. someone comfortable with the schematic could resolve this for me?

Lastly the antenna transformer : The guide says to unplug the wavemagnet and place the transformer therein. Does anyone have any experience with this accessory? I presume the order of performance is 1) wavemagnet, 2) transformer, 3) external antenna / ground.

My reception questions are not operational - this radio has the most clear reception of any radio I own. I have a Tecsun PL-880 which has been my standard for shortwave. On the 3000-1 I am picking up many stations on the 31, 25, and 19 meter bands - superior to my Tecsun.

Best, Mark


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 Post subject: Re: extending the antenna on a Royal 3000-1
PostPosted: Mar Sun 31, 2019 4:55 am 
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Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 4464
Location: Sunnyvale CA
markgarris1 wrote:
Back to the drum light ... I am going with the proposition that it requires the battery to function. Even if one removes the 8 vbatteries, the light battery is required. I read that when the 12 V adapter is connected that the battery is disconnected. I have not experimented to see if the drum illumination is likewise cutoff. someone comfortable with the schematic could resolve this for me?


No, it works off the battery, adapter or not. The dial light circuit is entirely independent of the rest of the radio, it runs off the one battery, regardless. Same as in the other thread on that topic.

Brett


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