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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 12:59 pm 
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I spotted a photo of a power board fastened to a bench longways. Here the earth /ground has to be on the bottom (regulations) so its "the last to leave".

I only have a "fire blanket" in this workshop. It has two roof vents and only a door & an aircon (summer) to breath: So its basically a confined space. Taps & hoses are in proximity & fed from two different power & water sources. If it gets a bit serious there is a fire pump.

I do not see a fire extinguisher as anything other than that. It would take more than 20 minutes to get any form of fire brigade to here, so one is basically on their own.

Marc


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 3:56 pm 
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John Bartley wrote:
Vin Tageman wrote:
some old players could use lecturing, too, seriously.


Go lecture someone else.

There's more than enough net-nanny bovine effluent and paranoia around here now, what with fears that we'll all die just from looking at asbestos or that every radio without a power transformer is a lethal weapon. These people are adults. They'll only be as safe as their DNA decrees.

Agreed, in the approx 14 years since I joined ARF, the alarmist brigade has probably tripled if not quadrupled.

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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 4:06 pm 
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+1 to Chris108!

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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 7:34 pm 
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35Z5 wrote:
John Bartley wrote:
Vin Tageman wrote:
some old players could use lecturing, too, seriously.


Go lecture someone else.

There's more than enough net-nanny bovine effluent and paranoia around here now, what with fears that we'll all die just from looking at asbestos or that every radio without a power transformer is a lethal weapon. These people are adults. They'll only be as safe as their DNA decrees.

Agreed, in the approx 14 years since I joined ARF, the alarmist brigade has probably tripled if not quadrupled.

I don't recall ever really seeing the "electrocution" or Asbestos drama 15 years ago, going forward to maybe 3-4 years back; that's when all the Chicken Little's started, with their redesigning circuitry that had been just fine for 3/4 to 1/2 a century, by changing to polarized plugs, adding fuses, using a separate power transformer, oy va, and it goes on and on.

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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 8:59 pm 
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Location: Powell River BC Canada
I think the big picture is being missed. Someone on the first post lands here
to get started with radio restoration with something that they just got.

How to inform about electrocution and asbestos?

Should new registrants be firstly directed to the caveats which
appear in every issue of the newsletter of Canadian Vintage Radio Society ?

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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 9:18 pm 
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Location: 13 Critchley Avenue, PO Box 36, Monteith Ont, P0K 1P0
radiotechnician wrote:
I think the big picture is being missed. Someone on the first post lands here
to get started with radio restoration with something that they just got.

How to inform about electrocution and asbestos?

Should new registrants be firstly directed to the caveats which
appear in every issue of the newsletter of Canadian Vintage Radio Societ
y ?


Why?

It's the internet ..... just who's gonna get sued when an adult does something stupid?

Let's just try minding our own business for a change and leave the paranoia and fear in the cupboard?


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 9:39 pm 
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No extinguisher at my bench, no GFCI either. You guys are scaring me. I might have to run out this weekend and take care of both issues...or not. I do have an extinguisher in my wood/metal shop where I weld and grind. I would probably put one right next to my stove long before my electronics workbench.


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 10:17 pm 
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Location: 13 Critchley Avenue, PO Box 36, Monteith Ont, P0K 1P0
Scott wrote:
No extinguisher at my bench, no GFCI either. You guys are scaring me. I might have to run out this weekend and take care of both issues...or not. I do have an extinguisher in my wood/metal shop where I weld and grind. I would probably put one right next to my stove long before my electronics workbench.



Yup, each of my houses (rentals and my own) have two fire extinguishers. ONe at the kitchen and one near thr main living areas. (at least they do when the tenant moves in).

I also have one in my garage near the grinders/welder.


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 3:54 am 
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Being Rural both cars do carry small extinguishers, one being replaced after it was used in anger (cheaper than a refill). One shed contains no material that cannot be extinguished with a water hose & it has them. The kitchen area has a fire blanket as that is the most applicable, for there

It all comes down to risk assessment. We did not fully understand Asbestos risk until all hell broke loose here with Wittenoom, now considered one of the Southern Hemispheres most contaminated sites.

What you call GFCI's are here, a mandatory fitment, as there was a large scale rewiring here in 2016 and a new house. The two distribution boxes were changed. So there are six boxes with them in it.

Marc


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 5:54 am 
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Location: Powell River BC Canada
Quote:
It's the internet ..... just who's gonna get sued when an adult does something stupid?

There is fine line between stupid actions and those done in ignorance. The expectation
of a reasonable result might be assumed.

The internet today is about as leaky and sneaky as dial telephones were 60 years ago.




If you want to post on Elektrotanya, you cant register until you pass the 5 question test.

It took me 2 tries to get past that.

" If you would like to register to the site you have to fill out a test. It consists of 5 questions about electricity. After the successful test (5 good answers) you can ..."

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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 7:43 am 
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You can only do so much by correspondence. In many cases it has to be "Hands on". One size does not fit every situation.

Generalising: This is where Clubs and groups like Men's Shed (An Australian concept that has gone global) have a place. We get retirees from all walks of life, that means that we may get (as an example) an accountant, or teacher who wants to do say woodwork and has never handled a woodworking tool or even a block of wood to work on.

So as we have trade qualified people & certified trainers we use them & to up skill these people. On the safety side, we have to be industrial: We are rigid in enforcing that if you do not know, or have never used a particular tool, you do not do so until you have been shown, or trained in what is required to safely operate that apparatus, or tool.

Marc


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 9:49 am 
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Location: Albuquerque, NM 87123
The original poster here made his point that a fire extinguisher is an essential piece of equipment to have in an electronics repair shop.

Those of us who have been involved with electronics for years (decades) know this to be utter bunk.

And there are plenty of us here who simply DO NOT need to be lectured to as if we couldn't find our butts with both hands. The 'voice of authority, all-knowing all-seeing master of all things' routine gets a tad tiresome after a while.

It is a step in the wrong direction to inform newbies that a thorough and all encompassing understanding of safety is 1st before anyone even picks up a screwdriver. Most of electronics repair has nothing to do with using power tools like lathes, drill presses and routers; those devices need special instruction, which is NOT needed here.

Before retiring in the last place I worked there was a guy who ran a small screwdriver into his eye; this doesn't mean screwdrivers require special instructions, just a lot of common sense. Stop spreading fear; it doesn't help anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 11:14 am 
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I came out of what was essentially a trade school before embarking on careers based principally on chemistry. But also diverting into Agriculture (born on a farm & I still have it) & Horticulture. By the time I left formal education the first time. I had a grounding in the basics of electricity and was repairing radio's before I even left.

Of the trade schools basics in Woodwork (& Grandfather was a carpenter) Sheet metal work and Turning & Fitting. Everyone of those skills I have used in life and on radios. Many radios have wooden cabinets and they need repair, some break pulleys & need extension shafts for pots & one I am repairing ended up needing a screw that I ended up making. I have also had chasses that needed welding. I even did a course on making up parts for printing & CNC cutting that can make parts to replace pot metal, & etching which can make printed circuits.

So I do not believe, from having done it for around 50 years that in restoration, lathes & woodworking do not have a place. Restoration needs a variety of skills and skills have various sources the world is a big place

Marc


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 12:01 pm 
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I think that it is relevant to acknowledge that people coming into this hobby come from a variety of diverse backgrounds and skill levels.

Some have practically no background in the use of tools, power equipment, and safe work practices, while others have extensive backgrounds using many types of equipment and tools occupationally or in other hobbies.

This diversity of skill levels is what makes it hard to design a one-size-fits-all type of universal training that is relevant for everyone.

Many organizations recognize this and simply design training for those knowing almost nothing and just accept that there will be some who are already way up the learning curve. Those folks with prior experience who participate in this type of entry level training will just roll their eyes and tune out while they wait for something more interesting to come along that they don't already know.

Other organizations may have more sophisticated training programs will be structured with multiple levels of targeted training for beginner, intermediate, and advanced students.

I think its possible to present the various safety/risk issues in a objective non-emotional way as well as methods and practices to avoid potential hazards. As is always the case, it is up to the individual take and follow advice.

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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 12:43 pm 
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processhead wrote:
I think that it is relevant to acknowledge that people coming into this hobby come from a variety of diverse backgrounds and skill levels.

Some have practically no background in the use of tools, power equipment, and safe work practices, while others have extensive backgrounds using many types of equipment and tools occupationally or in other hobbies.

This diversity of skill levels is what makes it hard to design a one-size-fits-all type of universal training that is relevant for everyone.

Many organizations recognize this and simply design training for those knowing almost nothing and just accept that there will be some who are already way up the learning curve. Those folks with prior experience who participate in this type of entry level training will just roll their eyes and tune out while they wait for something more interesting to come along that they don't already know.

Other organizations may have more sophisticated training programs will be structured with multiple levels of targeted training for beginner, intermediate, and advanced students.

I think its possible to present the various safety/risk issues in a objective non-emotional way as well as methods and practices to avoid potential hazards. As is always the case, it is up to the individual take and follow advice.


Really this goes to my point, that in order to do certain things one needs to explore the avenues that will lead you to where you need to be. As noted with the Mens Shed we have a lot of people that have retired & want to pursue hobbies totally alien to what they did in their working life. My point is that a Mens Shed is just one that has a range of informal skills training in a certain areas. Some educational facilities also offer this both from formal education, to the one I did recently that was not aimed that way. Some might just like frustration & take up Golf.

Marc


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 2:01 pm 
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Location: 13 Critchley Avenue, PO Box 36, Monteith Ont, P0K 1P0
Marcc wrote:
processhead wrote:
I think that it is relevant to acknowledge that people coming into this hobby come from a variety of diverse backgrounds and skill levels.

Some have practically no background in the use of tools, power equipment, and safe work practices, while others have extensive backgrounds using many types of equipment and tools occupationally or in other hobbies.

This diversity of skill levels is what makes it hard to design a one-size-fits-all type of universal training that is relevant for everyone.

Many organizations recognize this and simply design training for those knowing almost nothing and just accept that there will be some who are already way up the learning curve. Those folks with prior experience who participate in this type of entry level training will just roll their eyes and tune out while they wait for something more interesting to come along that they don't already know.

Other organizations may have more sophisticated training programs will be structured with multiple levels of targeted training for beginner, intermediate, and advanced students.

I think its possible to present the various safety/risk issues in a objective non-emotional way as well as methods and practices to avoid potential hazards. As is always the case, it is up to the individual take and follow advice.


Really this goes to my point, that in order to do certain things one needs to explore the avenues that will lead you to where you need to be. As noted with the Mens Shed we have a lot of people that have retired & want to pursue hobbies totally alien to what they did in their working life. My point is that a Mens Shed is just one that has a range of informal skills training in a certain areas. Some educational facilities also offer this both from formal education, to the one I did recently that was not aimed that way. Some might just like frustration & take up Golf.

Marc


Ok people ... pull your head out.

This is a hobby. This forum is filled with hobbyists, almost all of whom post anonymously. Quit trying to organise everyone else's anonymous hobby efforts and go organise your garden shed ..... you'll have better success.


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 3:05 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 3:11 pm 
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Vin Tageman wrote:
How seriously do you take shop safety? Would your workspace pass an unannounced OSHA inspection? I suspect my layout would, when it's in use, that is – ATM, I'm prepping to move, so the bench isn't "active" status and there's clutter.

Perhaps an open sticky wherein users could add tips to it would be useful.


(Fair warning! Ex-Naval Safety Center Avionics Analyst here!)

I'm all for the reminders of shop safety practices and applaud your efforts. An open sticky would be a great idea if it could be moderated with a safety sense in mind.

One more thing - the online woodworking communities came together in the late 2000's with a Woodworkers Safety Week* - where topical safety issues were addressed in threads, blogs and videos. It's been whittled down to a day, but is still useful and fresh. Perhaps something like that, where each month one day is set aside in a thread to present safety tips, case studies, or reminders?







* - Woodworkers Safety week was created by Marc Spagnuolo and others (https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/woodworkers-safety-week-may-5th-may-9th/)in 2008

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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 3:43 pm 
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Location: 13 Critchley Avenue, PO Box 36, Monteith Ont, P0K 1P0
Findm-Keepm wrote:
One more thing - the online woodworking communities came together in the late 2000's with a Woodworkers Safety Week* - where topical safety issues were addressed in threads, blogs and videos. It's been whittled down to a day, but is still useful and fresh. Perhaps something like that, where each month one day is set aside in a thread to present safety tips, case studies, or reminders?

* - Woodworkers Safety week was created by Marc Spagnuolo and others (https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/woodworkers-safety-week-may-5th-may-9th/)in 2008


Hmmm .... seventh decade on the planet. On the internet since early 1990's. Have been woodworking since my teens. Fully equipped woodworking shop in my garage. Spent two years working for fun in a commercial millwork shop after selling my power equipment business in late 2000's.

I know who the wood whisperer is ... I never heard of "safety week"..... until just now ....

EDIT :: so I went looking for the current WWSW web page .... doesn't exist any longer an apparently hasn't for many years ?? Even the link on Spagnuolo's blog goes to an empty page. ....


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 Post subject: Re: shop safety sticky?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 4:18 pm 
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Its always fascinating to see some of the domestic accidents & how they were achieved. We teach safety in Industry as accidents result in lost time, cost money, as does any resultant litigation & sometimes lives.

So they leave the training at the door on the way home. Kill and maim themselves there. N.B. You cannot sue yourself especially if dead.

Marc


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