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 Post subject: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Wed 05, 2019 12:30 am 
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Location: Nesbit, Ms.
Just picked up a Zenith 10-S-470,.. In nice shape, pre-take-a-part phase.. Seems to be complete.. The buttons seem to be in need of attention, but they are all intact..
level of difficulty on the radio??

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Last edited by Stan the Man on Jun Thu 06, 2019 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New project..
PostPosted: Jun Wed 05, 2019 1:17 am 
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Push buttons no problem. They are slide contacts to duel finger contacts. The tuner mechanical stuff needs cleaned and a little oil. The chassis will need filter capacitors replaced as well the paper and wax capacitors. It's a take your time to do it right. Overall a great performance radio.


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 Post subject: Re: New project..
PostPosted: Jun Wed 05, 2019 1:32 am 
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My experience with buttons is limited to a Philco 40-165.. for the first time I am concerned about the mechanical side.. I've also read too much about the 6X5G tubes..

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 Post subject: Re: New project..
PostPosted: Jun Wed 05, 2019 3:26 am 
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Lots of room to work on these deep chassis.
Yours may have early rubber insulated wire that has deteriorated and will need replacing or sleeving.

The mechanical side is a bit more challenging but if the radio is complete and no broken hollow shafts controls, you should be OK.

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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Thu 06, 2019 1:36 am 
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Yes, finally,.. a large chassis to work on.. I pulled the chassis this morning and started cleaning and taking pictures.. Much to my surprise,.. it seems to have all the original zenith caps and dogbones.. It doesn't look like anyone has been under the chassis.. There are a few minor mechanical issues, and the wave magnet antenna has taken a beating..


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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Thu 06, 2019 11:51 am 
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The chassis looks mostly original.
That power resistor at the top of your photo looks like a replacement for a bad section of candohm.

Many restorers suggest replacing the whole thing with discrete power resistors since they were somewhat prone to failure.

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 Post subject: Re: New project..
PostPosted: Jun Fri 07, 2019 12:52 pm 
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Stan the Man wrote:
My experience with buttons is limited to a Philco 40-165.. for the first time I am concerned about the mechanical side.. I've also read too much about the 6X5G tubes..


As to 6X5 tubes. This chassis uses two of them. You can replace the pair with a single 6AX5GT tube. It will handle the voltage and current of the 10 tube chassis plus the design of the tube doesn't have the short issues that are frequent with the 6x5 tubes. You will need to slightly rewire one socket for a single 6AX5GT. If you really want a tube in the empty socket then leave only the filament wiring and us something like a soft nearly bad 6J5GT in the dummy socket. No need to really run the filament in it.

As to the pushbutton box I remove it and spray liberally the contacts with Cheap CRC tuner cleaner and then play the buttons as if they were piano keys. About 50 times per button alternate in some pattern and soon all of them will be cleaned. Next a light shot of DeOxit D5 on the contacts and the mechanical mechanism as it leaves a bit of lubricant.

John k9uwa

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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 11:22 am 
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I can't say how many times I checked to see if I have the correct schematic for this chassis,(1005).. I know it may work electrically, but it sure would be nice if the parts were placed where I think they should be..
So this little Micamold thing was sitting there looking like a cap and all,.. With me driving myself nuts looking for R19, the 10ohm, wire wound resistor.. This is a first for me.. It does measure a little less than 10ohms.. Would someone please confirm that this is in fact a resistor..


Stan


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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 12:06 pm 
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Yes, it is a wire wound resistor. It should be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 1:24 pm 
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Stan the Man wrote:
I can't say how many times I checked to see if I have the correct schematic for this chassis,(1005).. I know it may work electrically, but it sure would be nice if the parts were placed where I think they should be..
So this little Micamold thing was sitting there looking like a cap and all,.. With me driving myself nuts looking for R19, the 10ohm, wire wound resistor.. This is a first for me.. It does measure a little less than 10ohms.. Would someone please confirm that this is in fact a resistor..


Stan


I bet if you feel it carefully you will find it is slightly pregnant. I would replace it with a 10 ohm 1 watt new resistor.
John k9uwa

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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 2:13 pm 
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Many times I wished Zenith would've added a layout of chassis components, as Philco and RCA have. It would give an added level of confidence during chassis restoration, especially if the chassis was worked on before... or heaven forbid, modified.


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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 2:17 pm 
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Stan the Man wrote:
I can't say how many times I checked to see if I have the correct schematic for this chassis,(1005)..

Be advised that there are a couple of errors in the Riders-sourced 1005 chassis schematic in the area of the Wavemagnet. Basically, the antenna selector transfer switch shown on the schematic doesn't actually exist.

Also, the local-distance switch on the cathode of the RF amp tube is located on the Wavemagnet box- this is alluded to by a note on the schematic but the actual hookup through the antenna connector is not shown.


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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 3:27 pm 
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lorenz200w wrote:
Stan the Man wrote:
I can't say how many times I checked to see if I have the correct schematic for this chassis,(1005)..

Be advised that there are a couple of errors in the Riders-sourced 1005 chassis schematic in the area of the Wavemagnet. Basically, the antenna selector transfer switch shown on the schematic doesn't actually exist.

Also, the local-distance switch on the cathode of the RF amp tube is located on the Wavemagnet box- this is alluded to by a note on the schematic but the actual hookup through the antenna connector is not shown.



Yes, thank you,.. One of the few things I was aware of.. I ran across this, and the actual hookup.. My antenna is in bad shape and will need some heroic attention..

Stan

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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Sun 16, 2019 4:59 am 
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This chassis has a handful of micamold caps of assorted size.. I know there is at least one paper,.. not sure on the rest..
What is the consensus on these now??

Stan

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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Sun 16, 2019 12:46 pm 
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Stan the Man wrote:
This chassis has a handful of micamold caps of assorted size.. I know there is at least one paper,.. not sure on the rest..
What is the consensus on these now??

Stan


In the picture you posted of the underside of your chassis, there is a larger black micamold cap in the lower left hand corner. I can't remember the value, but it is connected to one side of the power line.

This cap is not a mica cap but is a paper cap packaged to look like a mica cap. Replace that one with a safety cap. All the others I would only replace if they are out of spec. Some of the mica caps mayl be in tuned RF circuits. replacing them can impact the circuit, and require realignment.

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Last edited by processhead on Jun Sun 16, 2019 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Sun 16, 2019 1:48 pm 
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If you disturb the mica caps that are in the radio by bending the leads to cut off one end and measure the capacitor it might read OK today but the act of bending the leads may well ruin the seal of the lead in through the plastic case. And soon you will have moisture ingress and the cap will go high in capacitance.

I no longer leave ANY of the old capacitors and very very seldom any old resistors in my restorations. I do restorations for customers. I warranty the chassis work for a year. If the radio pukes or acts up in that year then the following happens. #1 Customer is a little teed off that they have to box up and return the chassis to me. #2 I am a bit upset as now I get to fix the same radio for a second time for Free and I get to eat the expense of sending the radio back to the customer. Therefore for the price of a few mica capacitors and the small amount of time required to replace them during the initial rebuild I just replace them at that time. Your Mileage May Vary if your just doing your own radio. After a bit of time and something goes wrong your only out a couple hours of your time and the price of the replacement mica caps to redo the radio.

John k9uwa

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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2019 11:00 am 
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John,.. you have a good point,.. I try not to disturb any more than I have to.. Those little square, brown boogers are always twisted up tight against something else.. Hard to get to, and I'm sure getting them hot isn't good.. I have identified most of them as Mica caps, so I will let those alone for now.. I am hoping this radio will be one of my regulars, so no customer involved..
Right now, I am struggling with this schematic.. The parts list is no fun to look at, and some of the figures on the print are just a tiny blob.. I started a new CAD drawing on it, but I don't know that I can finish it.. Not to mention part numbers that I just can't find anywhere.. I kinda got used to the Philco way of giving you a picture of the chassis.. I'll make it I guess,.. if the rubber wire doesn't kill me..

Thanks,.. Stan

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 Post subject: Re: New project.. Zenith 10-S-470
PostPosted: Jul Mon 08, 2019 8:54 pm 
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Well that wasn't as difficult as it first seemed.. Some clean up work and adjusting to do, but it plays well..


Stan


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