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 Post subject: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 2:46 pm 
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Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
The Silvertone 7080 I'm working on is the first radio I've done that has asbestos under the radio:
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I'm wondering what I should do about this. It's in very good shape so I'm inclined to just leave it be and work around it when refinishing the cabinet. Although a few fibers did come off on the bottom of the radio chassis when I removed it (circled in yellow):
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What's the prevailing opinion? Should I leave it alone? I'm assuming it's to protect the cabinet from heat so if I remove it, what should I put in it's place?

Thanks!

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 2:51 pm 
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Millions of radios were built without asbestos underneath the chassis so the thinking that it protects the cabinet from heat in that area isn't something that all those other radio's designers took into consideration. Asbestos found inside the top or sides of cabinets might have been put there because they were concerned with heat. There's nothing under the chassis of your radio that could create any significant heat that would affect the cabinet, so it doesn't need to be there.

You can do one of two things. Wet it till it's saturated and carefully remove it being careful not to create any dust, or you can seal it in place with something like clear lacquer spray, applying several coats. I have done both over the years depending on how much work it looks like it could be to safely remove it, which is the preferable option.

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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 3:07 pm 
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As Dennis suggests... Get it damp with wet paper kitchen towels soaked with water. Remove it and double bag it - place in the trash.
Try not to get the woodwork too damp.

Work outdoors and stay upwind for any final dusting. Do not use a vacuum cleaner.
If you are paranoid about heat build-up, drill a few holes in the bottom of the cabinet - I wouldn't. Lol.

:) Greg.

Edit: If that is corrugated cardboard (used as a packer, to raise the chassis) underneath, that may be reason for the asbestos mat!


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 3:26 pm 
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Location: Jackson, NJ
I simply would leave it alone.
I did that in both my Zeniths TOs.

I tried to use that sealant from auto store I was told to use but if anything it made it less stable.
People who suffered from asbestos are those who worked on demolitions etc.
The world was using it in irons, radios etc, and somehow the users of it did not have any problems.

Of course if you decide to really agitate it and then inhale, you are likely to get problems.


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 12:56 am 
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Location: Lake City, SC
I have a Kodak Flash Sheet Holder from the 1910s or '20s--the old camera flashes where you throw a match through the back while holding the thing at arm's length. The entire reflective surface is asbestos.

Keep that material safe and sound, not abraded or disturbed, and it should be okay. It's surprisingly durable...like fibreglass.


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 1:04 am 
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Asbestos worries in old radios is severely overblown. As others have pointed out, just leave it be.


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 1:51 am 
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Correct me if I'm wrong - but I'm pretty sure there must have been some fires caused by carbon comp. resistors bursting into flames. Some of the metal film resistor packages I have say "Flame Proof" on it. If the caps and out of tolerance resistors have been changed in the radio, I would think that would greatly reduce that from ever happening.


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 4:37 am 
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The OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit is not zero. Even so, minimizing exposure is a good idea. Wetting, using "amended water," which is water with a bit of soap / detergent helps. A good tight fitting respirator with NIOSH/P-100 cartridges is also a good idea (get the combination cartridges with activated charcoal for spraying finishes).

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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 4:38 am 
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leave it in the set and seal it with three coats of poly.

discard the rest of the poly after the three coats are applied.

steve

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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 4:41 am 
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Messing with the stuff is a sure fire way to get yourself over exposed. Just leave it alone.

If I do anything, I typically apply a heavy coat or two of clear polyurethane floor finish, applied with a brush to simply seal it in place. That way there is no dust or exposure to airborne particles, now or in the future.

As for the fire aspect, with modern components, and proper FUSING, fire should be WAY down the list of concerns.

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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 12:45 pm 
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When cleaning, the cabinet & the chassis or disturbing it; a respirator, is really mandatory. Normally I paint it with PVA glue & that will act as a binder.

Anything that sprays will create turbulence & that will move the loose stuff around (bad news). Next item is clothes & people wash.

The Blue stuff is the most deadly (and there is a body count to prove it): http://www.aussietowns.com.au/town/wittenoom-wa

Marc


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Fri 14, 2019 4:54 pm 
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Marcc wrote:
The Blue stuff is the most deadly (and there is a body count to prove it): http://www.aussietowns.com.au/town/wittenoom-wa

Marc
Yep, I've read some research on the cellular responses to blue asbestos (Crocidolite). All of the forms of asbestos are regulated the same, but the blue asbestos is the worst type. It is also what was used to make the Micronite filters in Kent cigarettes.

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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 3:32 am 
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That town in Western Australia has been abandoned rather like those around Chernobyl in Russia were. Two notable Industrial disasters, resulting in many suffering a slow, cruel, lingering death.

Marc


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Mar Thu 02, 2017 1:37 am
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Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Thanks for all the input guys...I appreciate it! Sorry I haven't replied until now...for some reason I didn't receive notification that there were replies, even though I subscribed to the topic. I'm off to the golf course right now so I'll read through these and respond later tonight or tomorrow.

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2019 12:11 am 
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Joined: Mar Thu 02, 2017 1:37 am
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Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
After reading through these replies, doing a little research on my own, and watching a couple of videos, I'm not as concerned about removing this piece of asbestos as I once was. I think that with some simple precautions and some careful work it shouldn't be hazardous to me to remove it, so that's what I plan to do. I'll work on it in my driveway on a calm day, wear nitrile gloves, wet it down, and carefully pry out the staples. My biggest concern will be if it wants to stick to the wood, in which case I'll need to carefully try to scrape it off. Just to be safe I'll throw my clothes in the laundry when I'm done. I know it's been suggested that I simply double bag the asbestos and throw it in the trash, but I will check with my local landfill to get their recommendations for disposal...they take care of all sorts of hazardous materials.

Thanks again guy...I'll keep you posted!

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jul Sun 07, 2019 3:12 am 
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Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
I finished the radio and I'm nearly finished with the record player so I decided it was time to take care of the asbestos. It turned out to be a piece of cake. I set up in my driveway and poured some water over the asbestos, then spread it over the entire surface with a paper towel and allowed it to soak in a minute or two. Then, wearing gloves, I pried out the staples.
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I was concerned that it would stick to the wood and I would need to scrape it off, which would obviously disturb the fibers, but that was not the case. I simply had to lift it off and place it in a couple of plastic bags for disposal.
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No problem!

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jul Sun 07, 2019 11:01 am 
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Asbestos is like anything else extremely dangerous. If you examine the risk then learn how to manage it, then the probability of being hurt by it diminishes substantially.

Annoying: Power has failed & its raining UPS has a time limit.

Marc


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jul Mon 08, 2019 3:00 pm 
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I've found that once the sheet is gone, the chassis will sit too low in the cabinet. You'll need to find some sort of spacers or washers about the same thickness. The plus side to doing that is it leaves a small space between the chassis and cabinet for air flow.


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jul Mon 08, 2019 5:00 pm 
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Location: Sunnyvale CA
criageek wrote:
I finished the radio and I'm nearly finished with the record player so I decided it was time to take care of the asbestos. It turned out to be a piece of cake. I set up in my driveway and poured some water over the asbestos, then spread it over the entire surface with a paper towel and allowed it to soak in a minute or two. Then, wearing gloves, I pried out the staples.


Asinine hysterics about asbestos aside. you probably want to figure out how to replace the function of the asbestos (i.e. fire protection for the wood) somehow. It was there for a reason - a failure could result in the wood getting too hot and catching fire. This is a bigger risk than leaving it (since there was exactly *zero* chance that you would have been harmed by it) but now, it's gone, you want to figure out something to protect the wood. Chance of that happening is also very low, but higher than getting mesothelioma.

A quick search turns up several ceramic fiber sheet materials that would have equivalent function and still be electrically neutral.

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: What To Do About Asbestos?
PostPosted: Jul Tue 09, 2019 12:42 am 
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For wooden domestic meter boxes mounted on wooden walls here; It was common to put a piece of cement sheet between box & wall.

Marc


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