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 Post subject: Zenith 9-S-365 project.
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 5:01 am 
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A friend of a friend has asked me to consider working on her Zenith 9-S-365. I've not seen the radio in person, just marginal photos. In the photos it appears the pre-set push buttons are at best broken off, or maybe missing all together. Renovated Radios has some Zenith push buttons, don't know if they are the right ones. Fortunately, it appears all the knobs are present and intact.

What pitfalls would be waiting in working on this? I'm thinking cramped working space, commonly failed parts, unavailable repro parts, easily broken during restore parts, etc. I've done about 50 radios, AA5s and transformer radios, but mostly table top sets. No big consoles like this. What's waiting to bite me on this?

Sorry about the orientation of the photo. I could't right it.


Attachments:
Z 9-s-365 2.pdf [195.98 KiB]
Downloaded 16 times
Zenith 2.jpg
Zenith 2.jpg [ 48.97 KiB | Viewed 1437 times ]

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Last edited by rebrands on Jun Sun 23, 2019 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 10:56 am 
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Location: Cromwell, Connecticut
These are good radios to work on. The dial and motor belts are available from Quality Radio Belts and the buttons from Renovated Radios. Both links are to the right.

There is plenty of room under the chassis to do your work. I don’t believe this radio has rubber wire, just something to keep in mind.

I would plan on normal procedures for repair. Do ohm out all coils before starting. I have seen open antenna coil primary’s which are easy to fix.

Here is a link on how to work on the shutterdial mechanism by John K9UWA.
https://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1261789

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People may not remember how fast you did a job, but they will remember how well you did it.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 2:24 pm 
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That's good info and reassuring. Thank you. When I searched for "Zenith 9-S-365" there were no results for "9-S-365", which surprised me.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 2:51 pm 
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rebrands wrote:
That's good info and reassuring. Thank you. When I searched for "Zenith 9-S-365" there were no results for "9-S-365", which surprised me.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/zenith_9s ... h5906.html


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 2:58 pm 
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I've been to the Radio Museum site. I'm surprised that the search function on ARF doesn't recognize numbers or letters.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 3:23 pm 
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Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
When searching arf, use the top (google site search) box only.

Results for→

9S365 site:antiqueradios.com
https://www.google.com/search?q=9S365+s ... .com&gbv=1

and...

5906 site:antiqueradios.com
https://www.google.com/search?q=5906+si ... .com&gbv=1


Schematic error...
viewtopic.php?p=2727886#p2727886

Greg.

oh... for rotational issues with your images Ralph.
Run them through picresize.com first.
Posting photos to a forum thread...
The skinny: viewtopic.php?p=3032571#p3032571


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 3:34 pm 
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Quote:
When searching arf, use the top (google site search) box only.

And all this time I've been using search query portion.
Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 3:55 pm 
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Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
The top box uses/employs the google search engine to search within these forums.

Use inverted commas for exact phrase.
example: "one tube radios"
results→ https://www.google.com/search?q=%22one+ ... radios.com

Greg.

Edit: you may already have this.
1937 Zenith replacement parts catalog...
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtop ... 4#p2989634


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 15, 2019 4:12 pm 
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I just finished one of these a couple of months ago. Relatively easy to work on. The only issue I had, except for a bad on/off switch, was with the call letter caps that go under the push buttons. The repo ones I ordered don't snap in place. Too loose, had to fasten them in place. (Maybe that's the way they are supposed to be.)


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sun 16, 2019 12:14 am 
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As to call letter repro's falling out that is why usually the originals are missing. After setting up the button frequencies for the customer I put them in with a very small dab of clear silicone.

The 9s365 is the Odd Duck of the Zenith 1939 lineup of console radios. Keep in mind the number of 9s262 consoles you find. For Zenith the 9s262 was one their best all time sellers. So in the 1939 lineup guess what. This 9s365 is a 9s262 cabinet with a difference in the escutcheon cutout. Other than that the cabinets are identical. Not only that but the 9s365 and 9s262 chassis are also nearly identical. It is the ONLY 1939 Zenith console that retained the MOTOR driven dial. However in 1939 Zenith like many other companies wanted station Pre-Set Buttons. So differences to the 1938 9s262 vs the 1939 9s365 are... Gone is the Local Distance Switch and in its place is a bit more complex switch that selects between Auto or Manual to allow the pushbuttons and their coils and capacitors to be inserted without messing with the standard three band bandswitch. Other than that the 9s365 really is a 9s262 chassis. I have converted several 9s365 chassis over to 9s262 chassis. The only way to tell the difference is look for the two added holes in the topside of the chassis where the pushbutton assembly bracket is fastened to the chassis. Or running the serial number past the Zenith Oracle it will show 9s365. Zenith was probably amazed that the 9s367 outsold the 9s365 by a wide margin. The 9s367 is a totally redesigned for 1939 model year including a whole different shutter dial assembly. The rarest cabinet for this chassis is the 9s369 It apparently didn't sell well at all like the Zephyr style 9s367 cabinet.

John k9uwa

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sun 16, 2019 4:43 am 
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That's all great info. Thank you all. I'll post progress on the project.
reb

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 22, 2019 5:29 am 
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I picked up the radio a few days ago. It appears to be complete with the exception of the push buttons and the call letter caps below the push buttons, one broken belt, and very dusty. I could find no evidence of any modifications or major repair/restoration. It looks like Renovated Radios for the buttons & caps and Quality Radio Belts for the belt.
Attachment:
2019-06-16_14-00-28a.jpg
2019-06-16_14-00-28a.jpg [ 259.3 KiB | Viewed 1302 times ]
Attachment:
2019-06-16_14-28-49a.jpg
2019-06-16_14-28-49a.jpg [ 298.31 KiB | Viewed 1302 times ]

I have reviewed the links provided earlier in this thread. Good reading.
I have checked all the tubes. The 6F6 socket had a 6Y6 tube in place. The owner says it played the last time she tried it, so I guess the 6Y6 works although it isn't listed as a sub for the 6F6, but I plan to put a 6F6 back in there.
I have checked resistor values, found a few that need to be replaced and have questions on a few.

Of the two 10K resistors (R7s) above the band selector switch in the schematic, one tests at 13K and will be replaced. The other measures out at 2.4K, but the color code is unknown, as it is solid black. There are some other resistors that differ in value from the schematic. If this is one of those, what resistance should it be, or has it just lost the colored paint? Reading was taken in-circuit, so it could be in parallel with another component. In the schematic it is the one connected to the C9, Bumblebee .047.
Attachment:
z 9s-365 R7.jpg
z 9s-365 R7.jpg [ 184.36 KiB | Viewed 1302 times ]
Attachment:
z copy.jpg
z copy.jpg [ 293.55 KiB | Viewed 1302 times ]

Of course all the paper caps will be replaced as well as the electrolytics. I don't plan the restuff the paper caps, but I usually restuff electrolytics in my radios. As for the electrolytics, how restuffable are these? Are the contents removable from the bottom, or does the can need to be cut? If it needs to be cut I'll not restuff and just place the new one under the chassis with the old ones out of circuit.
Attachment:
2019-06-21_11-00-16a.jpg
2019-06-21_11-00-16a.jpg [ 112.75 KiB | Viewed 1302 times ]


Finally, at least for now. The on/off/band selector switch has no discernible "notches" or detents. It just glides between the bands. Is there a part missing, like a steel ball or something? How tough to fix?
Attachment:
2019-06-16_14-29-01a.jpg
2019-06-16_14-29-01a.jpg [ 227.65 KiB | Viewed 1302 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 22, 2019 1:53 pm 
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The gold-painted capacitors are easy to restuff. The outer shell is literally just a cosmetic metal can that is bolted to the chassis, retained by two nuts. The innards aren't potted in place- they can be pulled out with little effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 22, 2019 3:00 pm 
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While placing your order from Renovated, don't forget to order a set of chassis isolation washers. The originals are almost always rotten and compressed. Without them, the chassis will sit too low in the cabinet causing the dial face to not line up properly and the control shafts to rub on the wood.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 22, 2019 3:06 pm 
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Quote:
The innards aren't potted in place- they can be pulled out with little effort.
Good. That's what I was hoping for.
Quote:
Without them, the chassis will sit too low in the cabinet causing the dial face to not line up properly and the control shafts to rub on the wood.
I saw that when I removed it from the cabinet. Thanks for reminding me.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 22, 2019 3:14 pm 
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There are only 3 one watt resistors in the whole chassis. A 15K and the pair of 10K. If that bumblebee is shorted out internally plus electrolytic C22 is also in very bad condition then that is why the cooked R7 is cooked. 6Y6 tube was designed to be used in lower B+ circuits and still get a fair amount of audio from the tube so the filament in it is 1.25 amp draw rather than 0.7 of the 6F6. That causes more draw on the power transformer than Zenith wanted. Plus in the '37 through '42 chassis zenith bean counters really got to the engineers and the transformers are just barely able to handle the load. As well as resistor replacements and capacitors I would suggest a 25 ohm 50 watt aluminum finned power resistor in series with the primary of the power transformer. DO not put it in the 120vac line to the motor... just the transformer.

On/Off/Auto switch the power switch on the back should for sure click as it is the same as the usual On/Off switch found on volume controls. The On to Auto Wafer switch has a spring steel part that is supposed to click over bumps on the switch frame. The bad news is it is a bit of a complicated switch due to the auto manual part and will have to come from another 9s365 chassis. I have one here that is also messed up the same as yours. Someone tried to repair this one by putting a screw through the flat metal shaft of the switch and that sort of works. Problem is that the switch should only have three positions OFF .... ON/Manual.......... Auto. But you can continue to turn it farther clockwise due to the stop being broken out of the switch. Most likely if yours is broken then it will turn in the clockwise direction nearly a full 360 degrees. So look carefully for the tang that should turn On and Off the rear switch. If your switch doesn't enter the On/Off from the correct direction then no it won't turn off the radio. Your ohm meter will tell you if that switch is off or ON. If it shows infinity = off then rotate the switch shaft until it clicks which is probably close to 360 degrees. Then you should hear it click and the ohm meter will go to zero ohms. Barely after it clicks the ON switch it will be in Manual Mode and a slight more clockwise and it will be in Auto mode for the pushbutton presets. And that is where there should be a stop that is missing from this one and probably also from your switch. Most likely your going to have to live with the switch the way it is unless you can find a donor 9s365 chassis that has one that hasn't already been broken.

This 9s365 chassis that I have is being converted to a 9s262 chassis so that troublesome switch will be replaced with a On/Off/Local/Distance switch which is what is in the normal 9s262 chassis.

The Litic in the can shown in your picture the whole works will slide out the bottom of that one. The second litic can on your chassis would have to be cut apart to get the old parts out of it.

The last part I can think of the 11K two top sections of the candohm resistor in these chassis are very prone to opening up probably due to age and the load on them. I replace those with a pair of 12K 10 watt sandblock resistors. On the one I have I replaced all 4 sections of the candohm with sandblocks. 5 watts is adequate for the two lower ohm sections.
John k9uwa

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 22, 2019 5:13 pm 
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Possible good source for parts:

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/70373496


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sat 22, 2019 8:20 pm 
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Thank you for all the info. The bad news is about the switch. I'm thinking it will wind up just being that way. The parts chassis at Goodwill would be a crap shoot and probably poor odds to boot.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sun 23, 2019 1:35 am 
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I am preparing to order push buttons and station tabs. I was told that the "hook" push buttons, long on the left and short on the right, are the ones I need. Looking at the radio I don't see how they would work. Are the hook buttons the correct ones?

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 9-S-365 project?
PostPosted: Jun Sun 23, 2019 3:51 am 
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rebrands wrote:
I am preparing to order push buttons and station tabs. I was told that the "hook" push buttons, long on the left and short on the right, are the ones I need. Looking at the radio I don't see how they would work. Are the hook buttons the correct ones?


NO you need

Ivory colored rectangular hole cover.
Station Tab 1939 Zenith Radio
Station Tab 1939 Zenith Radio
Price: $3.00
Blank area for station call letters.
(item tabz2)

Ivory colored push button
Zenith 6-tube Radio Pushbutton
Zenith 6-tube Radio Pushbutton
Price: $3.00

Used on some 9-tube radios also.
(item pb15)

They made a 6 tube stars and stripes model where the bezel is the same as the 9s365.. therefore Ed's comment 6 tube plus some 9 tube.

Hooks are on 1939 Zeniths like model 7s363 and many others. Terrible choice on Zeniths part as the ends can be snapped off easily. And these same models use the triangle tabs for tone labels and station presets.

John k9uwa

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