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 Post subject: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Wed 14, 2021 11:48 pm 
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Greetings all, this is my first post here and I'm hoping to tap some of the expertise out there on a 1959 Philco G-826 I'm about to restore. I'm a newbie but I do have a few successful restorations / alignments under my belt.

The schematic comes with the usual alignment procedure starting with the two IF trimmers at 455kHz adjusted at the top and bottom. Maybe some of you have seen this, but looking at the bottom of the PC board where these are mounted they've clearly been sealed with some type of opaque glue preventing any bottom adjustment. It appears to have left the factory that way since everything looks untouched and the seal is between the the bottom of the cans and the top of the PC board.

Should I just align from the top only or de-solder the cans and try to remove the sealant to get to the bottom? I find it odd the alignment instructions include these bottom adjustments when it looks like they were meant to be left alone in this case. Any tips appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Thu 15, 2021 3:44 am 
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If the top slug is hex, an alignment tool with a reduced shank is used. Pass the tool through the top slug and into the hex of the bottom slug...

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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 1:40 am 
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Thanks for the feedback. I know what you mean, unfortunately these slugs are solid philips types. I've attached an image for reference.


Attachments:
File comment: Sealed IF trimmers
solid_radio_trimmers.jpg
solid_radio_trimmers.jpg [ 567.34 KiB | Viewed 1055 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 2:02 am 
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Before you get all worried about getting into the cans to do the alignment, why not try manually sweeping the cans with your signal generator and see where they are tuned to? Maybe they don't need to be adjusted?


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 4:18 am 
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That would be fortuitous. This one came in with 2 fried tubes and electrolytics. I have a feeling after I get through recapping it's going to need at least a little adjustment. I just haven't seen as many chassis as a lot of folks have so was wondering if I was missing something. I may be able to live with where they're tuned if they're somewhat close especially since I really don't want to desolder and open them up. But why seal them in the first place when the alignment procedure clearly illustrates them as being accessible for adjustment?


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 9:31 am 
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Post a scan of the schematic please.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 2:13 pm 
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Schematic attached...


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File comment: Philco G-826 Schematic
philco_G-826.jpg
philco_G-826.jpg [ 480.14 KiB | Viewed 1022 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 2:49 pm 
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Changing parts in the RF section can throw them off a bit, and many manufacturers do recommend checking the alignment. With time they may also drift a tad and many do.

However, the bottom coil rarely needs adjustment & Philips were one that actually made cans that were set in the factory and no further adjustment could be done. So you get the best out of the top ones, do not tamper with the bottom ones & leave it at that.

Marcc


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 3:07 pm 
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Thanks Marcc, that seems to be where the consensus is headed I think and that's likely the situation here. I suppose technically the cans being standard components have to be reflected in the schematic / procedure as adjustable that way but the seal is recommending against it. So I'll go with that and I'm sure it'll all come together when I get to alignment. It's good to experience a curve ball or two once in a while ;)

Thanks guys.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 3:33 pm 
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Post this to the Philco Phorum

https://philcoradio.com/phorum/

Often Philco data changed during the production of the set and did not make it to Sam's.

BTW the schematic is a Sam's re-draw.

I am thinking the design of the IF can is like that of a pocket transistor radio IF, one slug.

The alignment procedure would also change...

IMHO there is no slug in the bottom.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 3:50 pm 
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Thanks I didn't know about the Philco Phorum. That makes sense though because I have 3 different but similar schematics for this radio obtained on Radiomuseum.com


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 3:55 pm 
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Patent + drawing.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US2483919A/en

...the cores may be readily adjusted by inserting a screw-driver through either end of the assembly and turning the cores until they assume the desired position.


Video still: Replacing mica capacitors in an AA5 I.F. transformer.
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtop ... 6#p2765766


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 4:34 pm 
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Cores A1, A2, A3 and A4 shown on the Sams schematic above and mentioned in the alignment instructions.

Image
Large imageā†’ https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/3fYAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg


Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 5:37 pm 
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Ah thanks egg. Am I understanding correctly that based the patent description and diagram that only the top slug adjustment on each can is necessary since they're in lock-step with the lower coil (i.e. either side being the same thing)?

Quote:
The invention is illustrated as applied to an assembly wherein the coils l and 2 (Fig.5), are axially alined upon and carried by, a tubular coil form 3


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 7:46 pm 
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No, the patent description clearly indicates that the cores are individually adjustable.

-David


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 8:26 pm 
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Regardless, one side is sealed with intent so if I don't have to I think I'll leave it that way unless a mica disease cure is sooner than later.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 8:38 pm 
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It's an interesting conflict.

On the one hand, the print does indeed display two adjustable cores in each can, and the service instructions specify adjusting all four of them.

But in reality, Philco made sure that the lower ones could not be adjusted from the bottom, and the upper cores are designed for a flat blade, rather than an open hex configuration, which would allow an alignment tool to slip beneath to the lower core.

Obviously the only practical servicing would be to adjust just the top cores. Do one, then the other, then go back a second time over each.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 8:50 pm 
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This one also appears to be blanked off.

image: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0417/ ... _large.jpg
from: https://www.retroradiofarm.com/pages/ad ... etooth-mp3

Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 9:33 pm 
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Indeed it does. I'm prepared to go all the way if it comes to it but with a little luck just a touch up on the tops is hopefully my path of least resistance. It was reported to only hum so I'm not 100% sure what to find once I actually power up after recap. Aside from that it's in outstanding shape.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 9:40 pm 
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Sorry, I see no conflict...

Philco made changes after Sam's published. That is why I suggested visiting the Philco Phorum where all things Philco reside. You will get an answer and possibly a reference to the changes and a "correct" schematic with alignment. Though not impossible some sort of "special" technique may be required for optimal performance. Even if no genuine data bubbles up at least the Phorum will know such an aberration exists :roll:

Collectors should be aware of changes to circuits when referencing 3rd party schematics, like Sam's, Riders or other services. There could be a supersede in Sam's. However, the set is working and needs only alignment, not that it would need replacement IF's or a some another specialty part...

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