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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 9:51 pm 
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Factory alignment.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 10:07 pm 
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Chas wrote:
Sorry, I see no conflict...

Philco made changes after Sam's published. That is why I suggested visiting the Philco Phorum where all things Philco reside. You will get an answer and possibly a reference to the changes and a "correct" schematic with alignment. Though not impossible some sort of "special" technique may be required for optimal performance. Even if no genuine data bubbles up at least the Phorum will know such an aberration exists :roll:

Collectors should be aware of changes to circuits when referencing 3rd party schematics, like Sam's, Riders or other services. There could be a supersede in Sam's. However, the set is working and needs only alignment, not that it would need replacement IF's or a some another specialty part...

Of course there's a conflict;

the service data says one thing, and the reality provides another. It was an excellent suggestion to have the OP visit the Philco Phorum, but generally all we have to go on are SAM's service folders.

For the simple AA5 circuits, that's normally all that's needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 10:10 pm 
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Quote:
Even if no genuine data bubbles up at least the Phorum will know such an aberration exists
:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 10:28 pm 
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Have you tried poking a hole through the stuff blocking the hole?

There was probably a problem with flux and or solder getting through the open holes when the boards were soldered.

Could just be a fancy bit of masking tape over the hole. X-Acto blade will probably do the trick neatly.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 10:43 pm 
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I think that worrying about this is the last thing I'd be concerned with. First I'd be making it receive and play, then do a recap, then I'd sweep it to see how far off it is, and only then would I worry about this inconvenience of the bottom slugs being blocked.

There's more important things to do first.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 16, 2021 10:53 pm 
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Agreed. I was just looking at the road ahead and noticed this oddity. I think I will check with the Philco Phorum in the mean time for good measure.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 17, 2021 12:53 am 
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Sometimes changes appear to be made by "the bean counters". There is a very popular HMV set here from the fifties & the chassis had a very long production run in several cabinet styles. Originally the common screen resistor in the RF section was two parallel 22K resistors. Somehow that ended up as a 10K 1watt after which current squared by Resistance prevailed and cooked them as the current was able to exceed 10mA.

Marcc


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 17, 2021 3:06 am 
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Sounds like something along those lines might be the case. From the Philco Phorum...

Quote:
It's not uncommon on the secondary of the IF output transformer to be untuned. It turns up mostly in the later sets in the '50s. Probably cost cutting, not just Philco.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 17, 2021 3:55 am 
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fluxCapacitor wrote:
Sounds like something along those lines might be the case. From the Philco Phorum...

Quote:
It's not uncommon on the secondary of the IF output transformer to be untuned. It turns up mostly in the later sets in the '50s. Probably cost cutting, not just Philco.
:D

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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 17, 2021 4:03 am 
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Chas wrote:
fluxCapacitor wrote:
Sounds like something along those lines might be the case. From the Philco Phorum...

Quote:
It's not uncommon on the secondary of the IF output transformer to be untuned. It turns up mostly in the later sets in the '50s. Probably cost cutting, not just Philco.
:D


Not only the fifties I have serviced quite a few sets where only the primary was tuned.

Marc


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 17, 2021 4:18 pm 
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I'm with John, leave them be. unless they have been hacked there will be little or no improvement


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 17, 2021 7:18 pm 
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Have to agree with Chas. There is no conflict here. Philco did not make the IF transformers in this radio; they bought transformers from OEM suppliers. At that point in time you could get IFs with two slugs in the coil form, which gave four adjustments (for two IFs) with a hex alignment tool, or you could get a single large slug that actually goes over the IF coil assembly. It adjusts with a phenolic or fiberglass "screwdriver blade" alignment tool. Don't ever use a real metal screwdriver or the slugs will break PDQ.

Anyway it is obvious that Philco made a running change while the radio was in production, either because they ran into supply chain problems with one of their suppliers or got a better deal from somebody else. The bottom holes were blanked off intentionally because you can only adjust the large cap or cover style slugs from the top.

I think you will find when you are ready to do the alignment that the IFs will peak up just fine on the top adjustments.

By the time this set was made, AA5 table radios were becoming throw-aways. If they needed more than a tube or a capacitor it was cheaper to buy another radio than to pay somebody to fix them. Probably none were ever aligned back in the day, so nobody missed the bottom adjustments! Philco may have mentioned the change in their service literature but it's a safe bet Sams would not issue an update or re-do the folder on the set for something like this.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 17, 2021 10:19 pm 
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And as a result, the IF cans themselves were made so incredibly weak. Most other components in radios are decent quality but when you open up an IF can for the first time you quickly realize longevity wasn't on the minds of the manufacturers. I'm amazed they worked as well as they did for such an important part.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco All-Alermican 5 has trimmers with sealed bottoms?
PostPosted: Jul Sat 17, 2021 10:24 pm 
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fluxCapacitor wrote:
And as a result, the IF cans themselves were made so incredibly weak. Most other components in radios are decent quality but when you open up an IF can for the first time you quickly realize longevity wasn't on the minds of the manufacturers. I'm amazed they worked as well as they did for such an important part.



I disagree. The I.F. cans, other than the issue with silver migration are one of the least problematic parts in almost any radio. Tuning slug sticking would be another issue, but not a major one and a bit of heat usually gets them turning if some ham handed bozo hasn't been there ahead of you.


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