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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Nov Mon 28, 2016 10:48 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3484
Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
From where you started its awesome. I would have just moved it on.

Going to look great I'm betting.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Fri 02, 2016 12:25 am 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
After much glueing, clamping and screwing, the cabinet is now structurally sound. All sides and components are present, in their places, and sturdily affixed. The next step is to remove the old broken veneers and strip the old finish.
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Fri 02, 2016 12:33 am 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
Here are pics of all the clamping/gluing over the last couple of months.


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Clamp 14.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Fri 02, 2016 12:36 am 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
and some more


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Clamp 18.jpg
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Clamp 19.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Fri 02, 2016 1:06 am 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
And a few more


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Wed 14, 2016 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
I took the cabinet to Falvey Refinishing in Dorchester, MA (near Boston). They confirmed that the veneer and all wood on the outside is mahogany, stained reddish, no grain filler needed, with a clear lacquer finish. So, not walnut or any other type of wood, not toned lacquer, not an amber lacquer finish. They were even able to sell me a roll of mahogany veneer! Here are pics of the roll, it's grain, and the grain on the top of the set.
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Wed 14, 2016 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
Now that I think about it, I've never put veneer on anything. My plan of attack would be:
- sand surface flat
- cut veneer to shape, maybe a little big
- glue the veneer on
- trim up the edges
- sand edges
- done and ready for stain and finish.

What am I missing?


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 5:00 am 
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Joined: Jun Thu 25, 2015 3:21 am
Posts: 1352
my personal opinion is if you dont have experience in applying veneer and refinishing furniture have a shop do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 6:05 am 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
Thomas - why do you recommend that? Is there something that is particularly tricky I need to know about?

I'm aware that it might be involved and that there are things I'll need to learn. Heck - I didn't know how to restore tube TVs going into this, and I was able to do it. I have radios I practice on, including wooden ones that I'm refinishing. None need veneer though so that'll be a first for me on the TV itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 10:05 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3484
Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
With the work that the OP has done so far I don't think he needs someone else to stick the veneer on :D

Loads of ways of doing it on this Forum, here's one:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=289119 (See Hagstars slide show)

Make sure the veneer is completely flat and has no ripples left from the cutting. If there are they will show later (Yep! been there). The veneer needs wetting and ironing first if so.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Jun Thu 25, 2015 3:21 am
Posts: 1352
the reason i recomended a shop is that veneer has to be glued on perfectly straight trimmed properly bent to any angles in the cabinet etc and its a pain. the old veneer has to be stripped off first.

finishing wood or refinishing wood is also a pita. lacquer is particularly problematic because it has to be sprayed on with no drips and sprayed evenly. then you have to rub out the finish. refinishing should be done in a perfectly dust free environment. these are all specialized skills and not something i would try to attempt again. i did try once and the result was a nightmare. yes these skills can be learned and banderson has some excellent videos on youtube on refinishing cabinets. if you do decide to do it yourself watch them and practice on something that isnt as special as your grandfathers tv first.

then again i dont think i could have done anywhere near as good a job of rebuilding the cabinet as you did so you definitely are better at woodworking than i am.

yes you did an excellent job restoring the electronics in this tv. you did it without all the equipment the person who taught me considered necessary before attempting to repair a tv making it harder for you. you have a right to be very proud of your accomplishment. hopefully their will be many more in your future.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Thu 15, 2016 11:38 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
Thanks Thomas.

After I got the TV I got some radios to practice restoration. See the threads on the three I've completed:
I've learned all about caps, soldering, cleaning, multi-meters, etc. from working on these.

I'm currently working on this one, which has a wooden case where I'm practicing the refinishing - stripping, staining, grain filler, lacquer, etc.
I'm at the stage where I'm applying lacquer after the grain filler. I've had to stop for the winter, as I have no warm indoor space in which to use all the strippers and lacquers. I'll pick it up again as soon as it's warm enough to work outside again.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Tue 27, 2016 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
I removed the remnants of old veneer on the bottom front and right-hand side.
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Lower veneer removed.jpg
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Side veneer removed.jpg
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The remaining veneer is in good shape and I plan to leave it. There are a few chips on the edges and corners - I'll splice in some fresh veneer. See the pics above. Because this is a nostalgia project, I want to preserve as much of the original set as possible.

On the stain - I removed the lacquer from a small bit of the top of the set. What do you think - does that look like Red Mahogany stain to you guys?
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File comment: Red Mahogany?
Bit of finish removed.jpg
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It also looks like they used a grain filler. The original finish - in the spots where it is still in decent shape - is totally smooth, no grain. Do you guys concur? Should I use grain filler? Did Philco use grain filler back in the day?

Finally, props to Radio Daze for updating their Philco 48-1000 decal set, after some correspondence and photos from me, to include the text for the controls under the fold-down panel.
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New Philco Decals.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Tue 27, 2016 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 4876
Location: Sunnyvale CA
sdyer wrote:

On the stain - I removed the lacquer from a small bit of the top of the set. What do you think - does that look like Red Mahogany stain to you guys?
Attachment:
Bit of finish removed.jpg

It also looks like they used a grain filler. The original finish - in the spots where it is still in decent shape - is totally smooth, no grain. Do you guys concur? Should I use grain filler? Did Philco use grain filler back in the day?



I don't know for sure about the stain. I would have expected reddish-brown toner rather than stain, and it kind of looks like color is chipping off with the finish, which also suggests toner.

I am pretty much certain that they used grain filler. I think for a wood like mahogany I would certainly use grain filler, whether they did originally or not.

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Tue 27, 2016 9:38 pm 
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Location: Chicago, IL USA
I'm sure they used grain filler and I suspect it's toner lacquer too. Every cabinet I've seen from the late 40s used toner.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Wed 28, 2016 4:40 am 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
Brett_Buck and bandersen - I took the cabinet to a top local furniture restorer. I'm in Boston, land of history and antiques, so that's saying something. He looked at it and told me that it was mahogany veneer, with a reddish stain, and with clear lacquer over that. The amber in the lacquer was from age, he said when I asked. The chipping is because the wood itself is chipping - it's very damaged.

What the restorer said lines up with what I found, above, when I removed some of the lacquer finish. The veneer underneath was stained.

--> If anyone has DEFINITIVE information about how Philco did it originally, and I mean exact reliable information not suppositions and could-be's, I'd be very happy to hear it.

Without that, though, I think red-stained mahogany under clear lacquer, all rubbed out to a nice mostly-gloss finish, will be lovely.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Wed 28, 2016 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
The decals on the glass are flaking off. The text is mostly gone, the lines are mostly there.
--> I'd like to preserve the decals that are there, the gold lines. How can I re-adhere them, and protect the remaining lines? What can I spray or apply that will "seal" them on, but not leave marks on the glass, affect its clarity, etc.?

I'm seeing if Radio Daze can generate a new decal for the text, and maybe for the missing line segment. Some sort of reverse decal with the adhesive on the front or something. I've also thought that if the decals on the glass cannot be saved, perhaps I can apply them to the faceplate, in the background below.

Have any of you worked with decals on glass like this before? How have you solved these issues?


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Thu 29, 2016 10:40 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3484
Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
Yes! done new dials on glass. The only way for a pucka job comes from silk screening, easy in this case as only 1 artwork and screen needed. Cost about £80 here which for you may not be worth it. Cost is in the setting up so they say! The paint (s) are baked on and very robust so no lacquering needed.

Might get away with car pin stripe for the lines but I bet that's hard to put down straight. For the letters possibly dry transfer if you can find them and will they stay on? Any lacquer will show through the glass.

Thinking about it your idea of a decal on the tube mask might be best for the name. It doesn't need to be in reverse and decals through glass are not good anyway (grey). Also how would you seal the edges? They use water based adhesive so need to keep moisture out. On the mask you could spray over with a matt lacquer.

Gary


Last edited by Radio Fixer on Dec Thu 29, 2016 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Thu 29, 2016 10:48 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3484
Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
You have made great progress on what many would have junked or made a new cabinet for most of it. Not picked up how you cleaned all the wooden bits, particularly those still attached. Sometimes without proper sanding back to a sound surface things don't hold together long term with the temperature fluctuations in a normal house. Glue and dirt don't mix well in my experience. I would at least put the cabinet in a cupboard and leave it for 6 months to see how it goes. Why risk losing the veneer?

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Extreme Cabinet Restoration
PostPosted: Dec Sat 31, 2016 5:55 am 
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Joined: Jul Wed 08, 2009 12:17 am
Posts: 925
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
Quote:
Image


I feel pretty bad that I threw you a curveball calling this walnut. Years (decades) of woodworking I've never seen mahogany with anything but straight grain. This burl is pretty rare, I'm glad you're trying to save it.

Only way to do the glass right is reverse silkscreening of glass with baked enamel paint. I have a guy who does it magnificently, but not cheap. Try a glass specialty shop, for advice if not ability.


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