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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Fri 08, 2003 4:27 pm 
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Hi,<BR> Will lacquer sprayed over shellac be compatable? Also are these Krylon spray paints a form of lacquer base? Was wondering since they dry so quickly. Are any of the local stores carrying lacquer toners and finishes. I heard they couldn't because of Fed. regulations. I know ACE hardware said they couldn't, would be so much easier then meeting Behlen and Mohawks order requirements $$$$..<BR> Ken<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Fri 08, 2003 5:09 pm 
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Location: Vieques, PR, USA
Generally there is no problem using lacquer over shellac. In fact many use shellac as a base or sealer.<BR>I'm not sure what all Krylon might make...I think their most popular common clear stuff is an acrylic. I've done quickie resprays using it but it doesn't make for a real nice finish.<BR>As for spray lacquer toners, they are still on the shelf at good suppliers in big cities. I think there's a few jurisdictions that prohibit lacquer on a local basis...Los Angeles may be one...there's no Federal regulation saying that ACE (or anybody else) cannot carry it.<BR>There's plenty of sources where you can mail order small quantities, the only caveat being that it must be shipped by ground. Some of the places that "only use UPS" might stick on some "hazardous" surcharge that isn't an issue with regular surface mail.<BR>-Bill<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Fri 08, 2003 7:28 pm 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Ken,<P>I buy my lacquer at Ace Hardware. They carry satin/gloss clear, as well as black and white (no toners). It's their own brand. I love the stuff - cheap, and really easy to use. It REFUSES to blush!<P>Peter<P><P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.plasticradios.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.plasticradios.com</A>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Fri 08, 2003 8:20 pm 
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Location: Malone, New York USA
Hi-<BR> According to Krylon's web site- (at one time in the recent past,) they stated their spray paints are lacquer.<BR> As Bill said they also market acrylics.<BR> <BR> Anyhow, their spray paints seem to be compatible when overcoating with nitrocellulose lacquers, in my experience.<P> I mentioned some time ago, the local K-Mart here sells Dutch Boy brand spray clear lacquers.<BR> Gloss and Satin. Nice "fanspray" nozzles, less than $3 /can. I tried it for small jobs. I'm 'sold' on it.<BR> I've not seen that brand referred to when this discussion comes up every once in a while.<P> Den<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Fri 08, 2003 10:14 pm 
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Location: London,England
Hello<BR>I wouldn't do it! May be it's OK if the shellac is 50 years old, I don't know.<BR>If it's recent then for me it would be a NO! NO!.<BR>See thread "More Crazy Lacquer" <A HREF="http://antiqueradios.com/forums/Forum15/HTML/000034.html" TARGET=_blank>http://antiqueradios.com/forums/Forum15/HTML/000034.html</A> <BR>Gary<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Fri 08, 2003 10:30 pm 
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Location: Oak Creek, WI USA
Dutch Boy lacquer - When a nearby KMart closed, they had a whole mess of it for $2/can. I bought two each of gloss and satin. Works great, goes on nice and smooth. <P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Sun 10, 2003 7:58 pm 
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Location: twin falls idaho
When you use shellac as a base coat .. the lacquer will scratch off real easy when done i have been there enough times .<P>You can make your own toner , i`m sure you have read many topics on that here . I never have trouble making toner and its very easy and low cost .<P>Spray cans will never give as good of results as spray equipment . my equipment costed 100$ you dont need the expensive stuff to spray a few cabinets .<P>Good luck <P>------------------<BR><BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Mon 11, 2003 6:49 am 
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Location: Malone, New York USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by goodguy:<BR>"Spray cans will never give as good of results as spray equipment"<P><BR> <P> Really?-<P> Depending on the size of the project, brand of lacquer and the can's nozzle type-- and application technique, quality work _can_ be had from spray cans.<P> I use spray cans for small stuff and a Binks model 7, w/ with proper nozzle for lacquers for larger spray jobs.<BR> <BR> Properly applied, I would defy anyone to tell the difference in application methods<BR> (can vs. gun,) used.<P> There's my opinion.<P> Den<P> <P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Mon 11, 2003 6:53 am 
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Location: Michigan
What type of spray gun do you use. I have used spray cans for smaller jobs with good results, but I have a couple console cabinets that I have avoided getting into, as I think it would be difficult to do a good job with a spray can.<P>Larry Fowkes<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Mon 11, 2003 3:21 pm 
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Hi,<BR> Yes I have made my own stains for the dark trim parts out of boot dye, shellac and alcohol, works well for me. I took the formula out of a 1937 radio mag. In my questions above about the stores not carrying toners, there must be a chemical makeup reason why they don't carry toners.<BR> Ken<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Mon 11, 2003 5:18 pm 
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Location: Vieques, PR, USA
Ken,<BR>"They" don't carry toners because its a slow-moving item...no other reason.<P>-Bill<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Tue 12, 2003 7:56 pm 
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Why is shellac reccomended as a base coat?? Laquir dries fast and sands easy. Deft spray can stuff is especially fast and easy to sand. In a half hour you can sand the specks off and shoot it again. I can get a decent looking finish in a couple of hours with it. Shellac seems to have no advantages to me. <P>For what it is worth, I use my automotive gun and real laquir for big jobs and where I want to add toner. <P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Wed 13, 2003 4:11 pm 
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Location: Vieques, PR, USA
Recommended might be the wrong word but shellac has the ability to seal off some incompatible stains and sometimes will seal off "silicon infection" in the wood.<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Wed 13, 2003 8:16 pm 
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Location: Pocasset, Cape Cod, MA
And some natural oils or resins in the wood, because they won't dissolve in alcohol.<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Sat 16, 2003 11:19 am 
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Location: twin falls idaho
Spray cans are mixed very thin to get the material out of that tiny nozzle you need 5 cans and lots of time to get as much lacquer on a surface that a spray gun will put on in one coat .<P>Yes you can do a fair job on wood with spray cans but not a thick finish without waisting time & money <BR> <P>------------------<BR><BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Sun 17, 2003 12:40 am 
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Location: Somers, CT
Peter Bertini wrote:
<font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scot Armstrong:<BR><B>Why is shellac reccomended as a base coat?? Laquir dries fast and sands easy. Deft spray can stuff is especially fast and easy to sand. In a half hour you can sand the specks off and shoot it again. I can get a decent looking finish in a couple of hours with it. Shellac seems to have no advantages to me. <P>For what it is worth, I use my automotive gun and real laquir for big jobs and where I want to add toner. <P></B><HR>
<P>The reasons I seen in the past mostly have to do with toners applying more evenly over a shellac vs. bare wood base.<P>Pete<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Sun 24, 2003 5:45 pm 
Shellac is recommended for a base cost because it is the best know substance as a wood sealer against moisture contamination. There was a government study about 15 years ago where all known natural and syntetic materials were tested. Shellac won hands down.<P>In fact I don't use anything but shellac now. It is much easier and faster to work with, is non-toxic, and in my opinion, looks, and is, far more natural than lacquer or acrylics. Easier to repair, easier to tone, easy to achieve the desired finish, and cheaper to use.<P>But my main reason is the health issue. After 15 years of using lacquers, the odor started making me sick. Yes, I used masks, but you cannot completely avoid the toxic fumes in a home environment. And if you have pets, especially birds, it will greatly reduce their life span. Let's not even go over the flamability risk of using lacquers.<BR>In 1930, when Kadette's factory blew up due to the lacquers, they completely switched to shellacs and never went back.<P>I haven't touched my spray equipment in 10 years. Shellac does require a learned technique, but there are courses around that will teach you how to work with shellac. First thing they teach you is to make your own. The stuff in the can is horrible for finishing work. After you take one of these courses, I guarantee you will never spray again.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.radioswapmeet.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.radioswapmeet.com</A> Antique and Vintage Electronics Exchange


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Aug Fri 29, 2003 3:55 am 
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcol:<BR><B> <P>In fact I don't use anything but shellac now. It is much easier and faster to work with, is non-toxic, and in my opinion, looks, and is, far more natural than lacquer or acrylics. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>They used lacquer at the factory, so by definition it isn't and can't look more natural. Shellac is<BR> a fine finish, but soft and easily marked by water and alcohol. It is thinned with highly<BR> flammable wood alcohol. Wood alcohol is just as toxic as acetone, possibly more, though<BR> other things in lacquer certainly are more toxic. <P> I have never myself nor have I seen anyone apply a dark toner with a brush and not have it<BR> come out quite streaky. As for the birds, I wouldn't know, having never applied lacquer inside.<BR> Solvent based film finishes cannot be built up with a brush very far without dissolving the<BR> previous coats and creating more of a streaky mess. And I have tried using every sort of<BR> brushing lacquer and shellac I could find.<P> Shellec does make a pretty good sealer coat, but should be used thinned and left thin to avoid<BR> weakening the lacquer film.<P> John H.<BR> On the West Coast of New England<P>------------------


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 Post subject: Shellac vs. Lacquer
PostPosted: Sep Tue 02, 2003 6:00 pm 
Hagstar,<BR>First off, I meant natural to the look of the wood, not original to the make.<P>Second, you should never use wood alcohol, unless you want to go blind. I use grain alcohol. People can drink it and there is little or no odor. Makes the finish completely non-toxic. Great for baby furniture.<P>It comes out like it does for you because you do not know how to use it. Or the correct materials to use. The brush you use has a lot to do with streaking and being able to tone. Use a K-mart paint brush and you will not get good results.<P>Also, if you know how to mix it right, water does not affect shellac. But of course it wouldn't do well if you spilled your alcoholic drink on it. Even if you did, you could buff it right back out. Damage the surface of lacquer and you are doing a strip and a redo.<P>It is obvious that your experience is with lacquer. Use your can of shellac to seal the wood inside and out.<P>I am definetly not tring to imply that everyone start using shellac. It takes experience to use it properly. But if you have an opportunity to take a course in using shellac, do so. That will be the last day lacquer will be the primary finish you use.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.radioswapmeet.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.radioswapmeet.com</A> Antique and Vintage Electronics Exchange


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