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 Post subject: X-Y AND Z-Axis Capability in Digital O'Scopes?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 31, 2020 10:46 am 
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Joined: Mar Tue 10, 2020 5:11 am
Posts: 295
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Does anyone know for sure whether such scopes as the Tek TDS200 series, TDS400 series, any of the Siglent series (especially... I like what I've seen of those), or even HP/Agilent digital scopes have X-Y capability WITH Z-axis blanking? I haven't seen any Z-axis input connectors on any of the TDS series on epay as yet; and the Siglent vendors rarely show the back side of their scopes. I know almost all older analog scopes such as the 465 have them; but I can't seem to find such info on the info sheets of digital scopes I've been looking at.

I'm looking for a modern replacement for my old decrepit analog Kikusui CD5060A, which has seen far better environments than my damp basement some 15 years ago. I'm actually fairly ambivalent about the Tek TDS200/400 series as I bought one of each for a former employer only 10 or so years ago and both eventually suffered dead memory batteries, which turned out to be a real hassle to replace... I had to replace the battery RAM chip itself which was soldered to the PC board. There was a kit available to do that at the time but removing the old chip without damaging the multilayer board turned out to be extremely difficult and time-consuming; we would have been far better-off sending the scopes out for repair.

Thanks,
SteveH


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 Post subject: Re: X-Y AND Z-Axis Capability in Digital O'Scopes?
PostPosted: Jul Fri 31, 2020 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sat 16, 2016 4:15 pm
Posts: 95
The user's guide for whatever scope you are considering should tell you what you want to know.

For example, the Keysight InfiniiVision 1200X-Series and EDUX1052A/G Oscilloscopes User's Guide:

Z-Axis Input in XY Display Mode (Blanking)

When you select the XY display mode, the time base is turned off. Channel 1 is the X-axis input, channel 2 is the Y-axis input, and the EXT TRIG input is the Z-axis input. If you only want to see portions of the Y versus X display, use the Z-axis input. Z-axis turns the trace on and off(analog oscilloscopes called this Z-axis blanking because it turned the beam on and off).

When Z is low (<1.4 V), Y versus X is displayed; when Z is high (>1.4 V), the trace is turned off.


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 Post subject: Re: X-Y AND Z-Axis Capability in Digital O'Scopes?
PostPosted: Aug Sat 01, 2020 1:23 am 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 7901
Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
I quickly looked at a few ops manuals for random digital scopes... they seem to go to great pains to HIDE any information on the Z axis.

As noted above, I'm pretty sure any digital scope that does offer Z axis, will do so by using one of the existing channel connectors which would be switched to Z input via software. As to which scopes do or do not offer this capability...... you'd have to read the manual for each one. Even within the same manufacturer, I'm not at all sure it would be the same from model to model.

This kind of thing, among a lot of others, is why I still prefer "analog" scopes such as the 453 and 465. My 2445 is a great combination of both really ... just enough digital features, but still essentially an analog scope, and you don't need a degree in advanced Sanskrit to operate it.

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https://www.bbtvtestequipment.com


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 Post subject: Re: X-Y AND Z-Axis Capability in Digital O'Scopes?
PostPosted: Aug Sat 01, 2020 7:25 am 
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Joined: Mar Tue 10, 2020 5:11 am
Posts: 295
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
That's the basic conclusion I've come to, too: that it is unlikely, but possible, that the new digital scopes do include Z-axis and if so, it would use one of the existing connectors. But what worries me now is some of them may also have foregone the X-Y capability, assuming you would simply use a triggered CH1 as a X- replacement. I've done that in the past but it results in a whole lot of finagling around when you change the external X generator parameters. So far, I have yet to find any mention of X-Y in any of the info or operation manuals I've perused for Siglent scopes. A quick look several days ago found nothing, and that's why I decided to ask the gang about these newfangled scopes. Trying to use my poor old Kikusui has become so frustrating, and made me so mad several times, raising my blood pressure I'm sure, that I don't even want to fool around with it any longer. When it acts up, the present hot weather and garage lab do nothing to cool off my temper.

SteveH


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 Post subject: Re: X-Y AND Z-Axis Capability in Digital O'Scopes?
PostPosted: Aug Sat 01, 2020 11:29 am 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 7901
Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
For X-Y mode, my 2445 uses channel 1 as the horizontal input. I'd guess most of the digital scopes do that as well. My 2445, being a quasi digital-analog hybrid of sorts, has the usual Z axis BNC on the back, but you really have to dig in the manual to find how to use it. Must be a dying feature of scopes I guess.\

To sum it up, I'd say most of the digitals *should* have X-Y capability, but Z axis may be scarce to find in one of those.

_________________
Preserving the hist. of electronics, one boat anchor at a time! :)
https://www.bbtvtestequipment.com


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 Post subject: Re: X-Y AND Z-Axis Capability in Digital O'Scopes?
PostPosted: Aug Sat 01, 2020 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Jan Tue 10, 2012 8:39 am
Posts: 1534
One of my digital scopes calls X-Y 'vs' for versus I guess.


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