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PostPosted: May Fri 28, 2010 9:41 am 
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Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Bosco's low-rider cartridge is an easy install for the RCA 45 players. I've used several of them in the past with good results. The overall fidelity of these cartridges is good; however, the volume of your player drops off a bit since, if I remember correctly, they are .5 volts. You really need a 1.0 volt or slightly higher cartridge for a good output volume for these players.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Fri 28, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 14, 2009 7:16 pm
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thanks.. that's not precisely what I was asking...let me paraphrase.

Quote:
I have also read that .5~.7volt carts produce wimpy bass ONLY in 2 stage amps, such as the 45-EY-2, where the electronics have not been replaced and that .5~.7Volt carts will indeed produce sufficient bass and volume PROVIDED that the caps and resistors have been renued.

If this last supposition is correct, then the whole equation changes after I rewire my amp......and I should expect to get satisfactory performance from a cartridge such as the Chuo Denchi CZ-800 (aka: Low-rider, as adapted for use with the RCA players).


When I said "satisfactory performance" I meant performance similar to a 1volt cartridge, with good bass.

L7


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Fri 28, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Location: Pro Tech, Philadelphia Pa.
Louie, I've got an EY2 as well.
I also retrofitted the Chuo Denchi into it.

In order to compensate *somewhat* for the lack of volume/output, I added a 100uf 50v 'lytic cap across the 50C5's cathode bias resistor (plus side to cathode), giving the amp more gain/output.

It's a simple mod, and my EY2 plays fine with plenty of volume.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Fri 28, 2010 6:23 pm 
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ok, now we're talkin'....

And further, I forgot to add that while reading the old posts, I recall one discussion that was entertaining the idea that a slightly hotter tube line-up could accomplish the same thing.

But I'm still wondering if the failure to get a bold sound from the EY-2 with a low-rider cartridge is a direct result of not having rebuilt the amp.

Of course it would be difficult to do a survey of those lo-rider users who have restored their amps and those who have not, or have only partially restored their amp.

Logic suggests that 'probably' any enthusiest who is going to the trouble to seek out a low-rider cartridge and install it, will ALSO have replaced caps, resistors and tubes.

My experience with tube guitar amps is that a set of new tubes, be they power or preamp tubes, will significantly 'up' the performance. And those tubes are often not nearly as old as the tubes found in vintage record players such as these RCA's.

IN OTHER NEWS.......

One thing that's creating difficulty for me at the moment, is the 45-EY-2 Amplifier Rebuild Kit that I purchased off eBay. When it arrived, I decided to make a check list of the R's and C's, and discovered that some of the resistors were mis-labeled, and that almost all of the caps were mislabeled. A couple of the caps were so incorrect as to be unusable, and one cap was missing and another was unlabeled and unaccounted for.

I contacted the vendor, who was nice, and told me to check the chassis number against the number on the included schematic. The chassis of my unit (RS-138F) matched the number on their sheet, so I'm at a loss as to what happened. The vendor offered to make it right, but then issued me a refund automatically. I assumed that 'making it right' meant getting me the correct parts. I didn't even ask for a refund, or expect one.

The funny thing is, over the years, the 45-EY-2 came with several different chassic configurations, such as RS-138, RS-138A, F, H, and even RS-138M. I have schematics for most all of those, and the componants they sent don't really match any of them.

So, I guess it's off to the electronics supply for me, after I take a GOOD look at the actual componants in the unit itself.

So frustrating. The primary reason I order the nicely labeled 'Kit' was so that I wouldn't have to do so much double checking. Now, I'm doing triple checking. sheesh.

Oh well, cross-referencing is my life. :?

Louie7


Last edited by Louie7 on May Fri 28, 2010 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Fri 28, 2010 7:39 pm 
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Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Louie, the RS-158 amps were in the high fidelity New Orthophonic multi-speed players, mainly the 7-HF-5 and SHF-8, with push-pull 50C5 output tubes. To my knowledge this amp was never used on any 45 player. The EY2, according to the photofact I have, was a chassis no. RS-132A, although at least three different variations of this amplifier were made during the years that this player was in production.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Fri 28, 2010 8:09 pm 
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Moses ~ thanks...

Yeah, typo... sorry about that.... I was only on my fourth cup of coffee.

8) L7


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Sat 29, 2010 6:22 am 
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Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Louie7 wrote:
Moses ~ thanks...

Yeah, typo... sorry about that.... I was only on my fourth cup of coffee.

8) L7


Fourth cup of coffee? I'm wide awake after two cups. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Sat 29, 2010 7:17 am 
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moses_007 wrote:
Louie7 wrote:
Moses ~ thanks...

Yeah, typo... sorry about that.... I was only on my fourth cup of coffee.

8) L7


Fourth cup of coffee? I'm wide awake after two cups. :lol:


I guess that "southern drawwwl" gets shorter, eh? LOL :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Sun 06, 2010 5:15 am 
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Posts: 576
Location: Minnetonka, MN 55305
I just finished restoring the 45 Ey2. I used a replacement kit from www.voiceofmusic.com that is a fair bit of work to install but sounds fantastic. Gary's part # is K45A. He supplies a Pfanstiehl P-190 cartridge, four color coded wires, 5 cartridge pin clips, instructions with photos.

I rebuilt the power supply, re-capped, replaced the idler tension spring, cleaned and lubed the mechanism and this record player now sounds absolutely fantastic. Total with shipping was $14.75. I know this sounds like an ad but I assure you it is just a sincere endorsement for a solution that really works well.

Good luck!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Sun 06, 2010 7:24 am 
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great!

as far as that idler wheel tension spring.... I didn't replace it, but when I noticed that my turntable was awfully noisy and rough, I shortened the spring by tighening up on it, so it pulled stronger and as a result the tire made better contact and the noise went away! Bingo!

So... I wonder now, if turntable clatter is always attributable to flat spots. Snug up (or replace) your tension springs and things smooth out real nicely.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Sun 06, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Location: Berkley, Michigan
In 45 years of servicing phonographs and turntables, I have never come across a defective idler tension spring. Only springs damaged from being shortened or over stretched.

The turntable drive system is designed so that when additional torque is required to drive the change mechanism, the idler wheel naturally wedges itself tighter between the motor pulley and the platter rim. The spring tension needs to be minimal, just enough to keep the idler against the drive surfaces.

This can be proved just by rotating the turntable manually. Rotating it clockwise, it should move relatively easy as the idler wheel slips. Rotate it counter clockwise and a good soft idler wheel will grip making the turntable more difficult to move.

If the rubber on the idler hardens and looses its grip, increasing the spring tension can reduce the slippage but it puts more pressure on the top motor bushing causing accelerated wear. It also causes additional pressure on the idler wheel causing further damage to the rubber, especially on idlers that aren’t retracted from the motor pulley when the changer is off.

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That warm tube sound can usually be overcome by turning up the treble.


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PostPosted: Jun Sun 06, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Location: Minnetonka, MN 55305
First, I am not an expert so defer to the pro on the matter of spring tension. My unit would stall half way through the auto-reject cycle due to slippage as it turns out. The new spring solved this problem.

My phono speed, however, is too slow initially, taking a minute or so to reach proper speed. I wonder if this is due to the spring tension being to great? Also my turntable does NOT turn freely in the clockwise position.

Would appreciate any insight.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Sun 06, 2010 5:13 pm 
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Location: Pro Tech, Philadelphia Pa.
GSD wrote:
First, I am not an expert so defer to the pro on the matter of spring tension. My unit would stall half way through the auto-reject cycle due to slippage as it turns out. The new spring solved this problem.

My phono speed, however, is too slow initially, taking a minute or so to reach proper speed. I wonder if this is due to the spring tension being to great? Also my turntable does NOT turn freely in the clockwise position.

Would appreciate any insight.


Doug's detailed explanation about ider drive, above, is totally correct.

If, without an idler installed, or if it's held away from the platter rim, and out-of-cycle, you should have no drag on the turntable.
If so, the bearings/shaft could be at fault.
It should spin for a while if you whip it around by hand, and come to a decently smooth stop.

As for the slow startup issue, methinks that the motor bearings/felt oil retainers are gummed up.

In that case, the rotor and both bearing assemblies should be soaked in solvent for a while.... overnight is best.

Then all solvent flushed out with a non-residue spray like "Big Bath", dry, and re-oil the bearings incuding the felt oil retainers..... with a good light oil. (moses likes Zoom Turbine oil).

After re-assembly, the rotor should spin free, but once back in the changer, it doesn't hurt to lightly tap the shaft with a screwdriver handle while it's running, to center the bearings.

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"Accept the fact that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Sun 06, 2010 6:01 pm 
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I like what Doug VanCleave had to say about idler mechanism design. It makes sense.

In my case, I'm pretty sure that the spring had been compromised in some way - either someone or something in the past, stretching it, or just metal fatigue over the years.... to the point where it needed to be replaced or tightened up a smidgen (which is what I did, not having a replacement spring).

Please understand that by mentioning the 'technique' of tightening up the spring, I really was not recommending this as a substitute for installing a new spring.

In fact, the only reason I didn't install a new spring, is because I didn't have one.

My spring drawer has plenty of springs that I could have substituted, but I'm guessing that a specific spring of a specific size and strength is called for.

If anyone here has or knows the whereabouts of the exact spring, I'd be more than happy to 'spring' for one (or two or three) and mount it immediately.

Thanks! Ya'll are the best.


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PostPosted: Jun Mon 07, 2010 12:28 am 
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Location: Berkley, Michigan
I'm not taking shots at anyone’s techniques here, I'm just speaking from experience.

The reason I commented on spring tension was because so many people, automatically think that if the turntable stalls during the change cycle that the spring must have has lost its tension. The problem is by far more likely to be caused by the rubber on the idler being hard or glazed.

Sometimes all that is needed is to clean the inner rim of the turntable so that it is squeaky clean. Don't even leave a finger print on it. The same for the motor pulley and the idler wheel, clean the drive surfaces and keep your greezzy finger tips off of the drive surfaces afterwards.

Another important point that I haven't seen discussed is that the idler arm itself should move free and easily so that the spring can do its job. Quite often they are gummed up and stiff.

If the turntable doesn't offer greater resistance to being manually turned counterclockwise, your idler is slipping.

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That warm tube sound can usually be overcome by turning up the treble.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Mon 07, 2010 12:57 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 14, 2009 7:16 pm
Posts: 45
More good advice - - - thanks Doug.

My arm swings freely and the tire is not particularly hard or glazed.
I wouldn't call it 'as new', for sure.

My TT does offer great resistance in the anti-clockwise direction.
That's good, right?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Mon 07, 2010 1:22 am 
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Posts: 4127
Location: Berkley, Michigan
Louie7 wrote:
...My TT does offer great resistance in the anti-clockwise direction.
That's good, right?

Yep, it's got a grip.

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That warm tube sound can usually be overcome by turning up the treble.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Sun 13, 2010 2:27 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 14, 2009 7:16 pm
Posts: 45
RepairTech wrote:
Louie, I've got an EY2 as well.
I also retrofitted the Chuo Denchi into it.

In order to compensate *somewhat* for the lack of volume/output, I added a 100uf 50v 'lytic cap across the 50C5's cathode bias resistor (plus side to cathode), giving the amp more gain/output.

It's a simple mod, and my EY2 plays fine with plenty of volume.


Sure... I'd like to do that mod. However, my circuit employs a different tube at that point. It's a 50B5...

Would you be so kind as to indicate the connection points for the 100/50 cap, in this illustration, which shows the 50B5 in a 45-EY-2

Thanks. L7

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Sun 13, 2010 4:13 am 
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Louie7 wrote:
RepairTech wrote:
Louie, I've got an EY2 as well.
I also retrofitted the Chuo Denchi into it.

In order to compensate *somewhat* for the lack of volume/output, I added a 100uf 50v 'lytic cap across the 50C5's cathode bias resistor (plus side to cathode), giving the amp more gain/output.

It's a simple mod, and my EY2 plays fine with plenty of volume.


Sure... I'd like to do that mod. However, my circuit employs a different tube at that point. It's a 50B5...

Would you be so kind as to indicate the connection points for the 100/50 cap, in this illustration, which shows the 50B5 in a 45-EY-2

Thanks. L7

Image


Louie, you simple install a 100uf cap positive side to pin #2 of the 50B5, negative to ground.... in other words, jumping across the cathode bias resistor. (R7)
A 25 volt rated cap is sufficient.

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PostPosted: Jun Sun 13, 2010 8:37 am 
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Seems simple enough.. .. .. thanks!


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