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 Post subject: RCA RP-205 Playing Slow
PostPosted: Nov Sat 27, 2010 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 28, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 33
Location: Atlanta, GA
Hey all,
I'm getting to the tail end of my restoration. I had posted on this forum a month or so ago about a re-cap and the amp works incredibly well now. I replaced the 33RPM turret and idler wheel. Also, I've replaced the needle and am running into a few issues and hoping to get some help:

1. I only have 33RPM records, so I'm not sure if this is an issue for every speed, but the 33RPM plays slow (more like 22-25 RPM I would guess). It looks like the idler wheel is too close to the rim/turntable plate. When I remove the turntable plate and let the turrets spin, it spins fine on 45RPM and 78RPM, but the idler wheel touches the side so closely that it begins to rattle fairly vigorously and basically spins the 33RPM turret off. Once the turntable is replaced, the violent spinning doesn't occur (I imagine the turntable keeps it in place), but records play a little slow.

2. When the record is done playing, the changer doesn't automatically stop, it keeps restarting. I'm looking into this now, but I'm sure it's something simple, so I figured I'd include it.

3. Sometimes the changer drops the needle on the 10" point versus the 12" point. When I hold the 12" indexing lever, it drops correctly. Is that just the way it is? i.e. - unless I start the record from the top of the spindle, it won't land in the right spot?

Any help is appreciated here. Great forum. I'm so looking forward to finishing up. The sound quality is utterly amazing.

Best,

Tony


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:12 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 14345
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Did you take apart the motor and clean the bushings and re-oil it? If not, thats why it is slow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:15 am 
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Joined: May Fri 01, 2009 10:19 pm
Posts: 545
Location: Monroe, NJ
Gotta go with Larry on the primary most likely cause of the fault. Beyond that, make sure all the rubber idlers are absolutely clean. The inside of the turntable rim needs to be spotless and grease/oil free as well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:15 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
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Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
These two points here must be oiled or rejectitis can set in. Also be sure the little hairpin spring that is next to the main slide is adjusted properly.

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:20 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 28, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 33
Location: Atlanta, GA
what should i oil it with?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:21 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 14345
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
MouseMaster wrote:
Gotta go with Larry on the primary most likely cause of the fault. Beyond that, make sure all the rubber idlers are absolutely clean. The inside of the turntable rim needs to be spotless and grease/oil free as well.


Take Q-tips and lacquer thinner and clean the inside of the turrets; also use lacquer thinner on the posts that the turrets mount on to be sure they are squeaky clean; then put a dab of oil on each turret mounting post with a Q-tip. I am finding rebuilt turrets that I have ordered lately that were bad oily inside them. They must be clean.

If you have Alliance motor turrets, you will need pipe cleaners to clean the insides of the turrets; the Q-tips won't fit in them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:24 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 14345
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
spamola320 wrote:
what should i oil it with?


You need turbine oil on the motor bearings as well as the turret posts. This is where I get mine, and it's cheap.

http://www.kingssupply.com/item37.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:26 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 28, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 33
Location: Atlanta, GA
sorry for sounding really dense, but which are the bushing and which are the bearings? thanks!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:30 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 14345
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
spamola320 wrote:
sorry for sounding really dense, but which are the bushing and which are the bearings? thanks!!!


The motor has a rotor and a top bushing and a bottom bushing that the rotor shaft rides in. You must clean the bottom bushing by dousing it with lacquer thinner (outside, of course) and cleaning the inside of where the shaft rides with a Q-tip. The top bushing can be cleaned by dousing solvent over it while working it up and down and spinning it in your hand. You add turbine oil in the bottom and top bushing, put it back together and you're done. There is a trick to getting the bushings to line up right. Motor restore is easy as pie.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:32 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 28, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 33
Location: Atlanta, GA
that's what i thought. i've already taken it apart and figured that might be the issue based on other forum topics you all have written about. what about the motor bearings? which are they? this is so much fun!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:36 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 14345
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
spamola320 wrote:
that's what i thought. i've already taken it apart and figured that might be the issue based on other forum topics you all have written about. what about the motor bearings? which are they? this is so much fun!


There are no bearings, just bushings. The ball bearings is at the bottom of the spindle. You should remove those too, clean all the old grease out and re-lube them with Phonolube.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:38 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 14345
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Once you've cleaned the motor bushings and re-oiled them, tighten up the motor by hand until the screws are snug. Then rap on the each side of the motor with the rubber end of a screwdriver, then lift up the motor shaft with your hand and spin it and let it drop a few times. Do this every time you tighten up the screws a little more. Then when the screws are tight, the bushings will be perfectly aligned. That's the secret of motor restore.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 4:44 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 28, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 33
Location: Atlanta, GA
great! thanks larry. i'll let you know how it turns out


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Sun 28, 2010 6:56 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 14345
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
While you are at it, thoroughly clean both parts of the turret holding assemby, replace all 3 motor mounts with new ones, and replace both tiny grommets on each end of the speed change rod (smallest grommets Lowe's carries...they're tiny) Once you do all this and get the motor all serviced and everything put back together, it should be right on speed... and it should be up to speed IMMEDIATELY when you turn the switch to "on." If it takes any time to get up to speed, remove the motor and clean and oil it a second time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Dec Tue 21, 2010 5:21 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 28, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 33
Location: Atlanta, GA
Ok....
Round 2. So I cleaned everything today and really followed everything note for note. thanks to everyone that gave me advice. the problem is still the same. here's what I've noticed:

1. the player still plays slow and sometimes not at all

2. when i remove the turntable plate, i can see that the slow idler wheel movement is caused by the friction of the idler wheel being pressed up against the lip of the round frame. when i put the player on 78RPM, it move fine because the idler wheel barely touches the frame. as i change speeds, the idler wheel touches the frame so closely until it eventually can't move anymore (16RPM).

3. when i move the idler wheel away from the turrets to check how fast the motor is running, the turrets spin quickly and easily

4. when i put the idler wheel back on its track, but prevent it from touching the frame (something I obviously can't do while the turntable plate is on it), everything seems to spin just fine.

so...with that being said, my questions are:

a. how close should the idler wheel be to the turntable plate. mine seems to be past a snug contact when at 16RPM and 33RPM. the idler wheel seems to be pushed up right against the turntable plate to the point of not being able to move.

b. does it still sound like the motor? i'm happy to keep cleaning it if that's the problem. i've now cleaned it twice and the problem hasn't really changed much. if the problem is the closeness of the idler wheel to the frame, can i fix this? if so...how?

so far, all the advice has been incredible and i'm enjoying the process, but would really love to get done soon. i'm getting a little discouraged and thinking about bringing it to an expert, but don't know of anyone in the new york city area.

help :)

thanks in advance,

tony

p.s. - another issue i'm noticing is that the needle is very loose. should i replace the cartridge?

thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Dec Tue 21, 2010 6:14 am 
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Joined: Jan Sun 24, 2010 7:59 am
Posts: 6171
Location: Pro Tech, Philadelphia Pa.
The idler wheel should go INSIDE the turntable, NOT up against the "frame".
DUH!

Use something to push the wheel in as you lower the platter down to INSURE the wheel goes INSIDE the platter.

DUH.

_________________
"Accept the fact that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Dec Tue 21, 2010 6:36 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 14345
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
It is normal for the idler wheel to be against the frame when the platter is removed. Once the platter is reinstalled, the idler will be against the inside rim of the platter. The idler wheel will not be against the turrets properly when it is up against the frame, and therefore it won't rotate; however, it will contact the turrets properly when the platter is reinstalled.

If the turrets are spinning good as you hold the idler wheel away from the frame, the problem is likely with the idler itself. I've found a couple of old idlers had to be replaced since they were causing slow speeds. Some on here will tell you an idler can't affect speed, but believe me, it can.

Are all the speeds slow? If all of them seem a tad slow, it is either (1) the idler; or (2) the motor wasn't cleaned and oiled properly.


Last edited by Larry H on Dec Tue 21, 2010 7:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Dec Tue 21, 2010 6:38 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 28, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 33
Location: Atlanta, GA
thanks for your kind reply. the idler wheel is inside the plate. when the plate is there, there is so much friction that the turntable no longer moves. in order to better determine what is going on "behind the scenes," i removed the turntable plate and noticed that even without the plate in between the idler wheel and the frame, there was an immense amount of friction. by adding the turntable plate it seems to only increase the amount of friction, thereby bringing the turntable to an absolute halt.
since i last posted this, i've tried other troubleshooting measures and noticed that the 33RPM turret i replaced might be faulty. i got it from gary stork and i've heard he's the best. any chance that he might have sent me a lemon? all the other turrets are working fine (the originals), but this one...not so much.

anyhow, i appreciate all the replies. i've learned a lot through this process. RepairTech, your prompt reply is what makes this forum what it is.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Dec Tue 21, 2010 6:40 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 28, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 33
Location: Atlanta, GA
moses...
i was thinking it might be the idler. funny enough, i replaced the 33RPM and idler wheel and they seem to be a problem. is that possible?

thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Dec Tue 21, 2010 6:44 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 14345
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
One other thing...it's easy to get oil on the outside of a turret while working on this stuff and then a turret won't hardly turn. Take each turret off, spray the outside with household degreaser, then dry with a paper towel. Oftentimes this is the problem.

Also, spray the inside rim of the turntable platter with degreaser and dry with paper towels. Clean the idler the same way. Try everything again.

Have you installed new motor mounts on the motor?


Last edited by Larry H on Dec Tue 21, 2010 7:04 am, edited 4 times in total.

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