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 Post subject: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Wed 25, 2021 3:19 pm 
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Joined: May Sun 16, 2021 1:18 pm
Posts: 31
I have an Admiral console that I have recapped and rebuilt the changer, but there seems to be a considerable difference in volume output between the Radio and Phono. Does anyone have some thoughts on where to trouble shoot this issue? It also seems that the volume on the changer is slightly louder when it is first turned on versus 5-10 minutes after operation. The cartridge is the recommended replacement from V-M Audio Enthusiast so I'm fairly confident it's not the changer.
Some tubes have been swapped but I don't have a means of testing tubes. If there is a concern it may be a defective tube, any suggestions on which tube would be appreciated.
Attached is the schematic for this console.


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Wed 25, 2021 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 27873
Location: Detroit, MI USA
The phono on this unit feeds through exactly the same audio circuitry that the radio does. The only thing different is the phono signal comes from the cartridge, which is the only thing one could suspect in this situation since it would be very unlikely to have any problems occuring in the wires connecting the phono cartridge to the amplifier. If only the phono volume drops after a few minutes but there is never any change in the radio volume, there is nothing left.

Note that the cartridge output voltage has to be at least equal or perhaps a bit higher than the specs of the original part, since the phono has no extra amplification. Many times it's impossible to come up with an appropriate replacement today. If the phono volume is always a lot lower than the radio volume either the replacement cartridge is failing, or the output voltage of the replacement does not match the specs of the original part. It would be considered normal to have to make a slight adjustment of the volume control when switching from radio to phono or back again.

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Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Wed 25, 2021 7:10 pm 
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Joined: May Sun 16, 2021 1:18 pm
Posts: 31
Thanks for the reply. I looked up the recommended replacement cartridges and they go from .3-.65V. I substituted with a .5V. I didn't consider that there may be a problem with the replacement cartridge, so I'll look at that first.
Thanks for the help, this helps isolate the problem since I an getting good volume from the radio.


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Wed 25, 2021 8:58 pm 
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Joined: May Sun 16, 2021 1:18 pm
Posts: 31
I tested another changer with a .8V cartridge versus the .5V in the Admiral changer and the volume remains low. I also plugged both changers into the aux tape jacks and the volume remains low as well. Is there a cap somewhere in the circuit that may be causing the problem?


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 26, 2021 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Aug Sun 23, 2015 6:01 pm
Posts: 1279
Location: NJ 08090
Which cartridge did Gary send you? Possibly, if the original cartridge listed in the Sams, as Astatic 13TB (power point style), was in it, it would have had much higher output than today's replacements. Mr. Detrola is right...all audio comes through the same entry point in this amp...so any differences in the volume are in the source...in this case, the phono.
Unless you find an original working Astatic 13TB, expect the drop in volume with modern replacements. There are no other components in the phono's input signal chain to affect the volume.


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 26, 2021 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2644
Location: Haledon NJ USA
13TB puts out 0.65 volts.


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 26, 2021 5:56 pm 
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Joined: May Sun 16, 2021 1:18 pm
Posts: 31
The Admiral changer has a P226-0.5V and I plugged in a VOM changer that has a P2280-.8V. I can't distinguish any difference in volume between them.
If anyone has a suggestion on a cartridge that may work I'll get one.
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 26, 2021 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2644
Location: Haledon NJ USA
thermofin wrote:
The Admiral changer has a P226-0.5V and I plugged in a VOM changer that has a P2280-.8V. I can't distinguish any difference in volume between them.
If anyone has a suggestion on a cartridge that may work I'll get one.
Thanks


I believe the P226 is fine in that application.


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 26, 2021 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Jan Wed 16, 2013 12:04 am
Posts: 2542
Location: 77001
Do a simple check on the output of the
R/L channel audio leads in the tonearm.

Remove the R/L channel leads from the cartridge.
By convention, they would be a red and white wire.

With Phono selected, and volume up,
touch each audio lead with bare finger or screwdriver.

You should get a strong buzz, if the wiring
connections to the amplifier are good.

If you don't hear a loud buzz, then the problem
lies elsewhere than the cart.

In any case, a 0.5 volt output Pfanstiehl would give plenty
of signal to the amplifier, and that voltage is not the
issue, if the cart is not defective.

I recommend you clean the selector switch contacts.

Hotwax


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Fri 27, 2021 1:13 pm 
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Joined: May Sun 16, 2021 1:18 pm
Posts: 31
I ran the test on the cartridge leads and got a very strong buzz. I also cleaned the selector switch contacts. I have attached a picture of the loudness knob and at the position it is set at, the volume of the phono is relatively low but increases at a steady rate as it is rotated to max. I'm guessing this is the way the unit is designed to operate and that the volume of the radio is just different?? At the same setting shown, the radio is very loud which led me to believe there is a problem with the phono side.
At this point I don't believe there is anything more that can be done.
Let me know if there are any additional thoughts.

Thanks


Attachments:
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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Fri 27, 2021 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Jan Wed 16, 2013 12:04 am
Posts: 2542
Location: 77001
thermofin wrote:
I ran the test on the cartridge leads and got a very strong buzz. I also cleaned the selector switch contacts. I have attached a picture of the loudness knob and at the position it is set at, the volume of the phono is relatively low but increases at a steady rate as it is rotated to max. I'm guessing this is the way the unit is designed to operate and that the volume of the radio is just different?? At the same setting shown, the radio is very loud which led me to believe there is a problem with the phono side.
At this point I don't believe there is anything more that can be done.
Let me know if there are any additional thoughts. Thanks

Yes, we should have noted that in many stereos, the radio
circuit is louder than the phono side.
It is a design characteristic as you surmised.

Do you get sufficient phono volume to enjoy
listening to your records ?

If needed, adjust the balance control so the volume b/t the L/R
channels is equal.
If it's scratchy, use some electrical cleaner/lube
spray into the potentiometer.

Hotwax


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 Post subject: Re: Admiral Y1012 Console low volume on Phono versus Radio
PostPosted: Aug Fri 27, 2021 7:23 pm 
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Joined: May Sun 16, 2021 1:18 pm
Posts: 31
OK, that makes sense and yes the volume is fine when adjusted. It was confusing with such a drastic difference between them, but now I know!
Thanks again for your help Hotwax!


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