Forums :: NEW! Web Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives
Support This Site: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently Nov Sun 29, 2020 3:29 pm


All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 735 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 37  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Mar Mon 09, 2015 4:56 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
The tube is not cracked. I think what you're seeing is the inner metal disk inside the top of the tube.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Mar Mon 09, 2015 5:17 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
Here are some end of day notes and photos. The project is coming along. There is so much grime it's in the way, so I'm continuing with a deep cleaning. The tubes wash right up. Getting the crap out of all the nooks and crannies on the chassis is a challenge! I'm doing ok I think.

Attachment:
File comment: Lots of buildup on all surfaces after 40 years in a garage.
Much to clean.jpg
Much to clean.jpg [ 75.63 KiB | Viewed 4396 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Kitchen scrubber sponge works really well.
Getting cleaner.jpg
Getting cleaner.jpg [ 70.8 KiB | Viewed 4396 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: The tubes wash easily with dish soap and water.
Cleaned Tubes.jpg
Cleaned Tubes.jpg [ 66.69 KiB | Viewed 4396 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: It's amazing what you find under the dirt. I thought this was old brittle brown paper. Turns out it's clear plastic.
Turns out it was clear under there.jpg
Turns out it was clear under there.jpg [ 55.15 KiB | Viewed 4396 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Hadn't noticed this on the side of the chassis before. I'll investigate. Anyone familiar with what this might be about?
Old Note.jpg
Old Note.jpg [ 53.17 KiB | Viewed 4396 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: This'll come in handy.
Printed the repair manual.jpg
Printed the repair manual.jpg [ 50.79 KiB | Viewed 4396 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Getting there, bit by bit.
End of todays cleaning.jpg
End of todays cleaning.jpg [ 58.47 KiB | Viewed 4396 times ]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Mar Mon 09, 2015 11:54 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 11987
Location: San Jose, CA USA
Resoldering the cap works fine. A little bit mechanically delicate after it's done, since there is no high temp adhesive present. But as long as you don't disturb it too much, it will work. Heat from the tube will not melt the solder, even though it is a very hot running tube.

Adding adhesive such as epoxy will probably not do much good, as it runs hot enough to degrade the epoxy. Some kind of special high temp adhesive would be needed.

You may want to pick up a new tube, but in the mean time, resoldering the cap will tide you over.

The note on the side probably refers to the fact that there may be two separate 5 volt filament supplies in the set -- one for the 5U4 main rectifier and one for the 5V4 damper. Sometimes the filament supply to the damper has its own transformer. It's possible some kind of swap was done, and that's what's documented in the notes on the chassis side.

_________________
Tom K6VL


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Mar Wed 25, 2015 2:02 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
A bit of progress - photos below. I've ordered many of the caps. Let a tube roll off the bench. Have started a second practice radio (http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=273363), a Philco, so it's suitably complex and cramped. After one radio already, the TV is honestly not looking that intimidating anymore. After this Philco radio, I think I'll be ready to start something electrical on the TV.

Attachment:
File comment: Back was a corroded mess, rusted solid. Some Deoxit and lubricant got it working again.
Outside of control corroded.jpg
Outside of control corroded.jpg [ 61.51 KiB | Viewed 4257 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Took the covers off and the inside of all controls was very clean. Corrosion is on outside only. Great!
Interior of control is OK.jpg
Interior of control is OK.jpg [ 76.21 KiB | Viewed 4257 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: I must be more careful. I've broken the TV a few times due to simple carelessness. Luckily this is not a hard tube to replace. I've already ordered another one.
First Casualty 6AT6 tube.jpg
First Casualty 6AT6 tube.jpg [ 41.59 KiB | Viewed 4257 times ]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Fri 24, 2015 3:46 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
About the resistors - I've heard that TVs are more sensitive to drifting resistors than radios. My plan is to test them and if they've drifted to far, replace them. When ordering resistors, what kind do I need? JustRadios.com lists several different types and wattages. I've googled and searched the forums here, but haven't found much info.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Fri 24, 2015 4:43 am 
Member

Joined: Jul Wed 08, 2009 12:17 am
Posts: 930
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
Voltages in a tube radio are, in general, quite a lot lower than the corresponding receiving portion of a tube TV. Voltages in the sweep sections of a tube TV are, in general, a lot higher and of course the voltages in the HV section of a tube TV are not ever seen in a radio, by orders of magnitude. Higher voltages translate into higher amounts of resistor drift over time. In that respect, TV's are "more sensitive" to drift than are radios. Not because they are TVs but because there are higher voltages.

A common rookie mistake is to order a bunch of 1/4-watt modern general-purpose resistors sight unseen from Mouser or DigiKey or Allied or the like. Many modern resistors are made of modern materials and so are a lot smaller physically, so they look horrible in a vintage restoration, and are prone to not handling the associated higher voltages very well. Being tiny, they can arc over more easily than bigger, "old school" carbons.

For the best "look and feel" try to find original carbon comp resistors. I think JustRadios does a fine job of supplying those.

I prefer "Flameproof" metal films for most of my stuff. They're generally light blue in color instead of the classic vintage chocolate brown, and they aren't perfectly cylindrical like carbon comps, but somewhat dog-bone in shape. Some of us dislike them for that reason. If you are restuffing caps for original look, you should buy carbon comps. if you are ok with showing modern Nichicon or Panasonic or such caps, then the metal film resistors are a nice touch and work well in almost every application. Just avoid the tiny rice-grain-sized modern general-purpose resistors. They may work, may not, and will look cheap and sloppy.

The Sams or Riders documents are pretty good about specifying the wattages of resistors in a vintage TV. Most important of all, replace with resistors of the same, or greater, wattage as the originals. Make your JustRadios order after consulting with the sams/riders parts list and get the right wattages.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Fri 24, 2015 7:32 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Thu 06, 2007 11:54 pm
Posts: 2978
Location: Hayward, California USA
Most of the resistors, such as the five visible in your picture "interior of control is OK", are 1/2 watt, 10% tolerance (if they have a silver stripe) or 5% (if they have a gold stripe). No fourth stripe means they are 20% tolerance, but most resistors sold today are 5% or better anyway.

_________________
Quote: (Antique TV collecting) always seemed to me to be a fringe hobby that only weirdos did.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sat 25, 2015 2:13 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mar Sun 01, 2009 10:27 pm
Posts: 5392
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
The metal film resistors will be very stable and change value very little with changes in temperature. But the carbon film resistors are somewhat more stable then the original carbon comp resistors and are the closest thing in characteristics to the carbon comp resistors other than new carbon comp resistors. And they are not blue. If you do not want to order from Just Radios, DigiKey and Mouser have carbon film resistors. Consider ordering a higher wattage rating to get a larger physical size and a higher voltage rating.

_________________
Tom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sat 25, 2015 12:04 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov Thu 08, 2007 2:44 am
Posts: 2758
Location: Martha's Vineyard, Mass.
Tom Schulz wrote:
Consider ordering a higher wattage rating to get a larger physical size and a higher voltage rating.


Yup. I use 1 watt resistors to replace 1/2 watt, and 2watts to replace 1s. 8)

_________________
“You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sat 25, 2015 2:23 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
I like the idea of using higher wattage - they are bigger for a more proper look, though that's not my main goal here, and also would be more stable as there would be less chance of heat-related degradation (right?).
I have the schematic, but I don't see where wattage for the resistors is indicated. All that's listed is ohms.
How do I know the wattage to buy?

On the type, I'm thinking carbon comp would be best because that's what the TV originally had, so that's what it would work best with. Is there a good reason to use metal film? Will the TV work better? Warm up faster? "Drift" less after it's on for a while? Require less fiddling and adjusting?

I'm thinking I'll have to test each resistor to determine which need replacing, rather than a blanket replacement of all resistors. Good plan? Or would blanket be better, like with the caps?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sat 25, 2015 6:28 pm 
Member

Joined: Jul Wed 08, 2009 12:17 am
Posts: 930
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
Almost nobody blanket-replaces all of the resistors. It's just too much work and is rarely necessary. There may be hundreds of resistors in a typical TV, of which less than ten will typically be drifted, of which only a few are drifted to the point of affecting performance. A person should pick his battles. Occasionally we hear of a person who strips a chassis completely bare and rebuilds a set from scratch. in that case, and probably only in that case, would I recommend completely shotgunning resistors (and in that case I would make them all blue, just for artistic pleasure). One notable exception might be the Pilot TV-37, which is designed so poorly and runs the resistors so hard and puts 'em away wet, than often more than half of them are drifted to uselessness. It might be reasonable in that case to just go for it.

Probably a neat idea to pick the carbon-film wattages based on overkill to match the original comps in size. Over-cautious safeguards are a good thing. If I were doing a pre-war I think I'd try going that route.

The Flameproofs I get from Mouser are advertised tolerance 2% but in practice from personal testing they seem to be dead-on every time. To as well as my meter can discern. Like 0.002% tolerance. That gives me a warm fuzzy as to quality of construction. Perhaps they are less prone to "fiddling" on warmup for that reason, or perhaps I just imagine it. Try some of each and develop your own preferences along the way. For your first shot, here, I think I like Lee's idea best, get double or quadruple the specified wattage, carbon films, to match original physical look and to get the most stable and safest performance in an original look.

Some people (notably our tube-audio brethren) claim a "hiss" is produced by carbon comps that the light-blue metal oxides seem to cure. Unsure if carbon films produce the same psychology. I've read reputable technical journals from the Hi-Fi glory days than seem to concur about the comps, and all of the modern stereo gear I've messed with seems to be all-blue. Our TV applications may not be so sensitive, though. Although who knows, maybe less snow or static...?

The Sams document should say somewhere, "All resistors are <X> Watt unless otherwise noted". "X" usually being 1/2 in TVs of our interest. Safe to assume X unless otherwise noted. Original carbon comps of the same physical size are almost guaranteed same wattages, larger being larger. If you see a big one, doublecheck Sams for the note. YMMV, but a pretty safe bet that if it's bigger than usual, the wattage is higher than usual.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sat 25, 2015 7:16 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
For the wattage - I can find no information online or in the manual. The manual I'm using is http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/phil ... er-tv2.pdf. It does not mention resistor wattage anywhere.
Where can I get this info?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sat 25, 2015 7:45 pm 
Member

Joined: Jul Wed 08, 2009 12:17 am
Posts: 930
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
Sams set #53 - folder #17 lists all 124 fixed resistors and gives wattage and tolerance for each, on pages 5 and 8. I have a hardcopy, but the ETF may have it online, or if not, just ask here and one of the scanner-enabled members will likely get one posted.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sat 25, 2015 9:01 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov Thu 08, 2007 2:44 am
Posts: 2758
Location: Martha's Vineyard, Mass.
The WH is spot on when it comes to advice regarding wholesale replacement of resistors. Don't do it.

Two good reasons for it. One it's not necessary. Two its tempting fate.

In my recently completed RCA 621 TS, I went through all of the resistors, and only 10 needed to be replaced. They were either dead, or way off spec. But this was a very old TV that was put through the wringer.

The net result was a sterling performer. But, if your resistors are ok, and within spec, leave them be. 8)

_________________
“You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”


Last edited by M3-SRT8 on May Thu 07, 2015 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sun 26, 2015 2:35 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
I've started the recap. I'll test the resistors after that and see how many need to be replaced. I'm traveling to CT today to have the picture tubes tested. Progress photos below.

Attachment:
File comment: Starting at the top and working my way down.
Recap day 1.jpg
Recap day 1.jpg [ 76.05 KiB | Viewed 3915 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Funky dotted capacitors. These are mica and do not need to be replaced, right?
Suitcase capacitors.jpg
Suitcase capacitors.jpg [ 55.43 KiB | Viewed 3915 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: The white tube looks like a resistor. 9W? Paper? Never seen a resistor like this. There are a couple of others in there like it.
Old Resistor.jpg
Old Resistor.jpg [ 63.99 KiB | Viewed 3915 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Cabinet really is pretty shot.
De-tubed.jpg
De-tubed.jpg [ 53.58 KiB | Viewed 3915 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Packed for travel.
Picture Tube Boxed.jpg
Picture Tube Boxed.jpg [ 43.41 KiB | Viewed 3915 times ]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sun 26, 2015 8:08 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Thu 06, 2007 11:54 pm
Posts: 2978
Location: Hayward, California USA
The two capacitors you pointed out are mica (because the left-most of the three dots with the arrows pointing right are black), but there are some similar-looking ones that are paper, often labeled "Micamold" (just to make it more confusing!). On the paper ones, that left-most upper dot would be silver.

The item marked "9W" is indeed a resistor, 3500 ohms, 9 watts. The horseshoe-looking symbol stands for "ohms". It is most likely fine, but you can measure it later when you test the others.

Good luck with the CRT test!

_________________
Quote: (Antique TV collecting) always seemed to me to be a fringe hobby that only weirdos did.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Sun 26, 2015 10:12 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mar Sun 01, 2009 10:27 pm
Posts: 5392
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
ChrisW6ATV wrote:
The horseshoe-looking symbol stands for "ohms".

It is the Greek letter omega. I know that you all needed to know that! I do not know how it came to be used to mean ohms.

_________________
Tom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Mon 27, 2015 12:12 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
ohmega...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Mon 27, 2015 12:14 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
The CRT should be fine. It was very weak on the tester, but as it warmed up - it hadn't had power in half a century at least - it came up bit by bit. Still weak, we rejuvenated it with a quick blast, after which it read well into "good". All the other tubes tested out fine as well, including the one where the top contact came off (see picture previously in this thread). I may try to fix that tube after all. So tube-wise I'm good to go!

If anyone needs help with restorations in New England, I can refer you to Kevin at radiorestoration@aol.com. He gave me lots of very good advice on the TV, it's workings, and how to proceed. His shop is full of old radios and TVs, mountains of tubes, parts, and chassis. It was fun to look around. He showed me a working early RCA color TV, and an RCA with the same tube as my Philco. Thanks Kevin!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Philco 48-1000 Complete - how to restore?
PostPosted: Apr Tue 28, 2015 4:18 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Sat 31, 2015 10:06 pm
Posts: 413
I bought a 300VA Variac a few weeks from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BXJ ... UTF8&psc=1). Is this powerful enough to use with the TV? Should I get a 5 amp? Also does anyone know of a good Variac that shows the amps being drawn, as well as the volts?

Here's some progress on the recap. It's looking good. I broke a pin on one of the tube sockets. I found I could use a little screwdriver to maneuver the little metal sheath/flange from an unused pin, and used that in the hole for the damaged pin. Should work fine.
Attachment:
File comment: More than halfway there.
Recap Day 3.jpg
Recap Day 3.jpg [ 83.24 KiB | Viewed 3853 times ]


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 735 posts ]  Moderators: Mr. Detrola, 7jp4-guy Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 37  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Tom Schulz and 2 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  




































Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB