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 Post subject: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone era
PostPosted: Jun Fri 07, 2019 6:50 am 
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Location: near ST Louis Mo 62002
I'm putting together a new tv ant and distribution system , will be using the antenna below and the LTE filter .I have a new old stock winegard chromstar 2000 antenna preamp that make all channels worse it was made when all cell phones were analog .

Does any one know what preamp works the best nowadays


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leadzm-180-Mil ... 2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Channel-Master ... 2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Gain-Low- ... 0010.m2109

http://otadtv.com/stlouis/index.html

All the stations i want to pick up are mostly in a line and south and slightly west of me in alton so no roter should be necessary .

Right now i'm picking up most of what i want with a homemade 16 inch loop made out of stainless steel banding , the lte filer and a cheap amp , with the loop hanging in the front window . The Filter allowed me to get channel 16 much clearer . Have a mast up that held my old ant in the VHF days , only need to talk my friend to mount it for me i can't climb anymore .

Any helpful suggestions appreciated .

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Fri 07, 2019 7:59 am 
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Location: SoCal, 91387
The first auction blurb is full of caca. No way to get line of sight VHF, UHF or FM signals from 180 miles away. The natural curvature of the Earth just won't allow it.

The second one is not a pre amp, just a filter. If it works for you, all the better.

I have one like the third auction; it does have some limited value. Wouldn't hurt to buy it, esp given the low price.

If you want good UHF reception though, the old tried and true Bow Tie configuration would be the way to go, using a name brand signal pre-amp with a low noise floor, mounted at the antenna.

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Fri 07, 2019 8:59 am 
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Location: Norfolk, VA
fifties wrote:
The first auction blurb is full of caca. No way to get line of sight VHF, UHF or FM signals from 180 miles away. The natural curvature of the Earth just won't allow it.

The second one is not a pre amp, just a filter. If it works for you, all the better.

I have one like the third auction; it does have some limited value. Wouldn't hurt to buy it, esp given the low price.

If you want good UHF reception though, the old tried and true Bow Tie configuration would be the way to go, using a name brand signal pre-amp with a low noise floor, mounted at the antenna.

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Along the same lines, there are now dual antennas with diplexers that allow you to pick up signals in two directions with the one antenna. Our local parts place has one set up as a demo. We have one set of channels about 80 degrees from the others (all to the WSW or S of us).

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Xtreme-Signa ... oCgejw_wcB

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Fri 07, 2019 9:37 am 
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Location: near ST Louis Mo 62002
I know the Miles in the add are Crap but I only need 60 miles all in line , and a friend has a quad bay bow tie ant ,it doesn't work very well . I'm more interested in a good pre amp ,and have a good working distribution amp .

I'm at the top of a 150 foot high hill plus the height of the house and mast (30ft ) more feet . I can see the ST. Louis Arch 30 miles away from my backyard .

I want a preamp that works i want advice from someone that has a good one in use at home , i can receive 60 miles away with just a homemade loop most of the time . I want a beam ant so it doesn't pick up cell towers that are not directly in line . In the 80's ,90's and early 2000's i worked at Rivertronics and one of our products were omni directional TV antennas for commercial river vessels and most of the name brand didn't work as well as radio shacks at the time . I personally tried several name brand back then and would like to know which one works in today's high RF environment


http://www.rivertronics.com/rivertenna/

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/ill ... ce3.html#1


https://www.thetelegraph.com/news/artic ... 936321.php

Boy am i glad i live on a hill .

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Fri 07, 2019 10:46 am 
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Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
A note or two on using an antenna preamp.... They can work well as long as you don't have a strong signal somewhere in addition to the weak one you are trying to get. If so, the preamp will probably overload on the strong signal, and of course in the process wipe out the weak one. Only cure for this is a single channel filter for the station you want, or a trap to kill or diminish the offending one.

Or if you're lucky, a rotor that lets you tune slightly off from the offending station while still getting the desired station sufficiently.

The preamp needs to be as close as possible to the antenna. Running a long cable to it more or less defeats the purpose of having one, especially at UHF frequencies. Also, get one that matches the type of lead coming off your antenna. If you use a 75 ohm coax preamp on a 300 ohm twinlead antenna, you'll need a balun, which has some loss. Not much but some. Visa versa is also true. Hopefully the preamp isn't a cheapie that just includes an internal balun.

If you're using coax out, that's lossy at UHF frequencies as well. Use a good quality cable. although your results are more or less dependent on how long the cable run is from the preamp to your TV. If you're using twinlead, it is much less lossy, but make sure its installed properly or it can eat up UHF signal.

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Fri 07, 2019 3:06 pm 
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I wonder if these Chinese "yagi" antennas as well as the other styles, are actually scientifically designed as antennas or are merely sort of dipoles with a high gain preamp dependent to make up the difference and the so called extra elements are not just decorations? Would not be the first time that antennas were made with spurious complications for eye appeal. I have a flying saucer type antenna and despite the claims it is not truly omnidirectional. I can change the position of the disc a bit and some stations come in while others drop out. SO it is just set in the compromise hope for the best position. It works but needs as much height as you can get.

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Fri 07, 2019 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 4620
Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
One often overlooked feature of any VHF or UHF (TV band) antenna, is that they can recieve signals from the back as well as the front. And of course to varying degrees, from the sides.

There is no such thing as a truly and completely omnidirectional antenna in the consumer and even the pro (CATV of old) lines. They are all a combination of compromises between cost, gain, and off axis rejection.

In trying to recieve long distance VHF (to perhaps pick up a blacked out local football game :::::innocent look) we installed quad arrays of single channel antennas with high gain preamps. Of course, with such high gain and low signal level to start out with, you'd have the problems I mentioned above (overload from local stations for example). Putting a narrow band filter ahead of the preamp, up at the array of course a few hundred ft in the air, worked on some days, if the adjacent or same channel at the rear of the array was not particularly strong.

Said filter also had it's problems, including some attenuation of the desired signal, and if it was not very high quality (read that as $$), some issues that showed up as ghosting (most likely return loss related).

Today, with so few stations on the air, it should not be quite so complicated to recieve a single distant station. But each situation is going to be different. The higher the gain, and the higher the elevation, the more likely you are going to get some interference issue from some other station, either constant or intermittent depending on the weather.

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Fri 07, 2019 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Feb Thu 28, 2019 7:48 pm
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Location: Lawrenceville, Illinois 62439
I would not pick the cheapest antenna I could find (even if it IS rated for 180 mile :shock: ).
I am 60 miles from Terre Haute or Evansville IN - the closest real stations. I have an 8 bay (bowtie) UHF at the store, on a 50' tower. I have a 110" Yagi at my house, 30' up. On both I've got an older Channel Master 0064 preamp booster. C/M 7777 or 7778 is the current best models I think. At both locations, I point them South to Evansville, and pick up Terre Haute off the back of them, no rotor needed. Some tweaking was involved (not actually aimed at the stations, but offset by 10-15 degrees) to get the back side better.
We put up antennas for years and never skimped on size of the antenna (Anyone remember the Finco bedsprings?), and 95% of the time the customers were quite pleased. The ones that wanted to get St. Louis or Indianapolis (150 miles) were the other 5%.
Dan


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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Sun 09, 2019 4:19 am 
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the absolute best antenna I've ever used

https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=91XG

it is highly directional, but since all my channels are west pointing to Pittsburgh, wheeling, and stubenville, I'm fine.

steve

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Location: Cromwell, Connecticut
I recently purchased this Omni antenna and I’m quite pleased with it. Although it says Omni, it as some directional characteristics, so a slight turn got me what I needed. Trying to dump cable so I ended up with 50+ channels even after the leaves came out.

https://antennadeals.com/HD8008.html

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Tue 11, 2019 9:06 pm 
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in addition to my post above on pointing my antenna directly on pittsburgh, altoona is south and received off the side. johnstown is available just a hair to the side.

one thing is for sure for the 91xg concerning more distant 30+ mile stations, it is highly directional. 10 degrees of variance will make quite the difference in signal strength to receive and/or not receive the stations.

clearfield can be received with a toothpick 8) .

steve

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Last edited by Dutch Rabbit on Jun Wed 12, 2019 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 1:16 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 15, 2012 3:10 pm
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Location: Buffalo, NY
For preamp I use Winegard AP-8700, but don't think ya can buy those anymore.
A cheap and decent alternative is the RCA TV Preamp-1R, google. U can get them for ~ $25 shipped to ur door.
You can set it up for UHF/VHF input, or separate UHF and VHF Inputs.
The Separate setting makes it a bit more flexible.

For antennas I use an Antennas Direct DB8e for UHF, and a Stellar Labs 30-2476 Yagi for VHF-Hi, available from Newark for ~ $35 up on the roof.
The signals then enter my basement where I have an 8 way splitter for distribution to various TVs, tuners throughout the house.
We modelled the Stellar labs Yagi here, ~ post #139, 140, 141
https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/186-an ... ost3079737


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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Wed 12, 2019 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Jul Fri 18, 2008 10:02 am
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Location: near ST Louis Mo 62002
I ordered a HD91x ant and a winegard lna- 200 preamp


https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=HDB91X

https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=LNA-200

https://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapp ... 2a476c0af6

http://otadtv.com/stlouis/index.html

Will post back after the ant and preamp are up , KNLC is about 45 miles away and the farthest channel away that i'm interested in at this time .

It looks like any preamp made before the advent of LTE phone service is a lost cause , will picture here my home made loop after the ant is up , don't want to move it for now it was too had to
orient it for best reception .

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 5:01 am 
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When T-Mobile starts deploying 600 MHz aggressively when the TV stations have finished clearing out of the 600 MHz Band, that 700 MHz 'LTE Filter' won't do much for ya. Having said that, I can't say that I have ever seen the 700 MHz LTE filter installed ahead of the preamp here be the difference in improving the SNR of any UHF TV signals here (suburban area). For me, controlling the stronger local signals, is what makes the weaker distant signals work.
But every area is different, and if ya live in an extremely busy area with lots of 700 MHz LTE users in close proximity and it makes ya feel better...


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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Thu 13, 2019 10:16 am 
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majortom wrote:
When T-Mobile starts deploying 600 MHz aggressively when the TV stations have finished clearing out of the 600 MHz Band, that 700 MHz 'LTE Filter' won't do much for ya. Having said that, I can't say that I have ever seen the 700 MHz LTE filter installed ahead of the preamp here be the difference in improving the SNR of any UHF TV signals here (suburban area). For me, controlling the stronger local signals, is what makes the weaker distant signals work.
But every area is different, and if ya live in an extremely busy area with lots of 700 MHz LTE users in close proximity and it makes ya feel better...



Right now it ( the LTE filter ) improves CH 16 from unwatchable to 3 or 4 bars on the signal meter on the TV i use the most , so it is worthwhile to have at this point in time so i can watch Doctor Who .

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2019 12:56 pm 
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https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=91XG https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=HDB91X


I purchased the the 91X version of this antenna , would applying hardware cloth to the reflector improve the ant to like the 91XG or be a waste of time ?

To me it would only the 180 degree rejection for the most part . It might improve the highest frequencies abit , or gather more LTE interference

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Fri 28, 2019 3:04 am 
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before I send the signal into a preamp, use two notch filters for the two locals. channel master made them designed for a specific channel--I don't remember what they were called.

without the two channel filters between the antenna and the preamp, some of the distant Pittsburgh and OH channels do not come in. the filters need to be installed b/c the local channels overload the preamp.

unfortunately, the channel master notch filters/combiners are no longer made.

steve

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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Sat 29, 2019 10:23 pm 
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I tried a Channel Master LTE filter on my 7 inch Axess TV. The only station that I noticed a difference on is KSNW (real channel 45). According to tvfool, it has a 69.5 dB noise margin at my home, but it is totally unwatchable using the TV's tuner. With the LTE filter in place, there still is interference from time to time. I use a Sylvania VCR as a tuner,(it doesn't need an LTE filter) and lose a lot of resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: TV ant and parts needed in the UHF ad digital cell phone
PostPosted: Jun Sun 30, 2019 1:53 am 
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http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapp ... 2a476c0af6
https://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90
http://otadtv.com/stlouis/index.html

Had my antenna put up today , The two channels i was having trouble with are now at 5 bars with out a spliter and bars with a splitter .Every other channels are 5 bars with the spiltter
CH16 is -59db and CH24 is -60.3db.

That is with the preamp and the LTE filter in line .

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