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 Post subject: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Wed 14, 2019 11:08 pm 
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Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
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Location: Florida
Here's one for the components guys. Where did the typical 630 V rating come from? There are 200V, 400V, 1KV, 1500V, etc. Why 630 instead of 600? Does the typical new dielectric stand a little more voltage or what?

RRM


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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 12:11 am 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
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Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
[quoteWhere did the typical 630 V rating come from[/quote]

Simple!! China!!!!! :). They're all made of Chineseium, and it's well known that they only have 630 volts over there .... ;-)

Sorry. I just had to be the first to say it .....

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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 1:02 am 
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Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
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Location: Norfolk, VA
Barry H Bennett wrote:
Quote:
Where did the typical 630 V rating come from


Simple!! China!!!!! :). They're all made of Chineseium, and it's well known that they only have 630 volts over there .... ;-)

Sorry. I just had to be the first to say it .....


630V dates back to Europe in the 50s, possibly even post-war 40s - lots of caps in older gear there that was 630V. China had nothing at all to do with it. Take a look at an old Siemens capacitor guide or two......my guess is that with higher plate voltages, they needed some wiggle room on some caps. Note they stuck to 63V, 100V, 200V, 400V and 630V as their standard film voltages. Electrolytic cap voltages were even 100s - 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, and so on.

They also premiered odd amperage fuses too - 315mA, 630mA, and good ol' 1.6A if used on 220V, making us hunt for the 3.15A when converting to 117V operation. We ran into that alot in the 70s and 80s, but thankfully had a direct line to the TV repair shop at the Navy's Naples Italy Exchange.

With archive.org, many European databooks are available, but none that explain the 630V rating.

EDIT: Heres some European data from the 70s - my old stuff is in the garage, and we're in thunderstorms now, else I'd image some of that....either way, China didn't open up until the early 80s....
Attachment:
630V Siemens.jpg
630V Siemens.jpg [ 222.88 KiB | Viewed 609 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 4:30 am 
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Location: Powell River BC Canada
https://www.justradios.com/MYLARcapacitors.html


Perhaps the 630 voltage is part of an ISO standard.

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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Thu 15, 2019 10:27 am 
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Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
"china" was simply a bit of humor folks. ;-) ...... possibly bad humor, but it's the attempt that counts.

Do y'all really think I believe China runs on 630V ?? 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Fri 16, 2019 1:06 am 
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Joined: Jun Fri 19, 2009 6:34 pm
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Location: Long Island
I don’t know if this is the reason for a fact, but ISO standards are usually based on Renard sequences which are similar to our more familiar exponential preferred numbering system. In this system the steps between values are based on roots of 10, in particular the R5 (or 5th root of 10), 1.58.

So if we start at 400-V, the next step is 632 volts (round to 630), the one after that is 998 (round to 1,000), then 1,580 (round to 1,500) and so on.

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Last edited by Chris108 on Aug Fri 16, 2019 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Fri 16, 2019 1:10 am 
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Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
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Location: Norfolk, VA
Chris108 wrote:
I don’t know if this is the reason for a fact, but ISO standards are usually based on Renard sequences which are similar to our more familiar preferred numbering system. In this system the steps between values are based on roots of 10, in particular the R5 (or 5th root of 10), 1.58.

So if we start at 400-V, the next step is 632 volts (round to 630), the one after that is 998 (round to 1,000), then 1,580 (round to 1,500) and so on.


....and probably explains 6.3V, 12.6V, 25.2V, and so on? Cool.

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"Capacitor Cosmetologist since 1979"
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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Fri 16, 2019 1:26 am 
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Joined: Jun Fri 19, 2009 6:34 pm
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6.3, 12.6, and 25.2 are nominal voltages for three, six, and 12 (respectively) lead acid battery cells in series. Renard numbers and the E series numbers are designed to eliminate redundant parts with overlapping tolerances.

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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Fri 16, 2019 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
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Location: Florida
Chris108 wrote:
I don’t know if this is the reason for a fact, but ISO standards are usually based on Renard sequences which are similar to our more familiar exponential preferred numbering system. In this system the steps between values are based on roots of 10, in particular the R5 (or 5th root of 10), 1.58.

So if we start at 400-V, the next step is 632 volts (round to 630), the one after that is 998 (round to 1,000), then 1,580 (round to 1,500) and so on.


Maybe but 1580 should round to 1600.

RRM


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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Fri 16, 2019 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
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Location: Norfolk, VA
Chris108 wrote:
6.3, 12.6, and 25.2 are nominal voltages for three, six, and 12 (respectively) lead acid battery cells in series. Renard numbers and the E series numbers are designed to eliminate redundant parts with overlapping tolerances.




So right, and staring me right in the face :oops: Somethings we tend to forget.....thanks!

Attachment:
LA.gif
LA.gif [ 4.22 KiB | Viewed 424 times ]

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"Capacitor Cosmetologist since 1979"
USN Retired 1984-2006 (Avionics/Cal)


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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Fri 16, 2019 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Jun Fri 19, 2009 6:34 pm
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Location: Long Island
Quote:
Maybe but 1580 should round to 1600.


Sure, if one was asked to round to the nearest hundred, 1600 is close to 1580 than 1500 is. But these are capacitor working voltages so they might have felt that it was better to round down than to round up.

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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Fri 16, 2019 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
Posts: 3867
Location: Florida
So the real answer is "don't know" which is fine. The European spec has the number but the why is still "don't know". There was no real reason for the OP except to get some guesses.

RRM


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 Post subject: Re: Why 630V Caps?
PostPosted: Aug Sat 17, 2019 1:22 am 
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Joined: Sep Thu 23, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 11770
Location: Powell River BC Canada
Guesses are valuable in the grand scheme of things. They point to common
thought processes in groups of people engaged in similar activities.

In dangerous situations careful and complicated deconstruction of
widely held ideas is necessary to get to automatic action.

Ever wonder why an electrician automatically puts on hand behind
their back when working on certain equipment?

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VE7ASO VE7ZSO
Amateur Radio Literacy Club. May we help you read better.
Steve Dow
ve7aso@rac.ca


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