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 Post subject: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Sun 12, 2021 6:47 pm 
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Saw this old ad in a December 1965 Radio Electronics. Made me wonder if any of these machines survived?

It also looks like there may be a lot more to a successful rebuild than this one could accomplish. Things a like a lathe for holding the CRT, etc.
-Ed


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WinsorCRTrebuild.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Mon 13, 2021 1:12 am 
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Yes, I think that is right.
Of course it picture may not be intended to show all the equipment.

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Mon 13, 2021 1:25 am 
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This video from the Early Television Museum shows an overview of the CRT rebuilding process and some of the additional equipment required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SayKlheh6bQ


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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Mon 13, 2021 5:14 pm 
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Thanks for the replies. @Jimtech, I enjoyed the video. They showed a machine that looked pretty similar to this, the one with the rotating gas jets. The illustration in the ad I posted looks like the upper section might also function as the oven.

Quite a complicated process, which didn't get into working on the phosphor coating on the screen. Lots of way to fail with a dwindling stock of parts. Pretty amazing anyone is able to do it, even on a small scale.

-Ed

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Tue 14, 2021 1:12 am 
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The machine pictured in the ad is more or less the same kind of unit that the video shows outside the main room. It combines an oven, vacuum pumps, the RF heater system (induction heater) and the "pinch-off" heater that he mentioned.
So you would also have to have a lath (vertical takes up less floor space), a getter flash unit, the HV purifier and the cathode activation unit. Normally the original method did not replace the cathode section, so you would not have to have the outfit for doing gun surgery. The idea of just replacing the cathode in a gun resulted I think from some types of guns becoming hard to find to replace the entire unit.
You also need a supply of gas and oxygen, running water for cooling, glass tubing, guns, stems, getters and of course more than a little electricity.
As you can see from the end of the video, welding two sections of glass tubing so that the joint is straight and doesn't bulge is not simple or automatic. Skill is required to adjust and operate the equipment.

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Tue 14, 2021 2:09 am 
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Yes indeed, a good amount of skill. The video said it was an early attempt at it. It was easy to see the slight misalignment which may have doomed that test to failure, unless there was a way to correct or redo it. I grabbed a couple stills from that part of the video.

BITD, Windsor offered free in-plant training at their location in Glen Ellyn, Illinois. It would have been a very good idea to take them up on that offer!

-Ed


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Weld tube neck 2.jpg
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Weld tube neck 1.jpg
Weld tube neck 1.jpg [ 104.03 KiB | Viewed 1050 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Tue 14, 2021 2:31 am 
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For those that are interested more detailed video of the rebuilding process, here is a longer YouTube video taken at Hawk-Eye Picture Tube in Des Moines, IA when it was still in operation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3G7b-DcOO4

- Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Tue 14, 2021 2:41 pm 
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There was a recent thread that got into the subject of CRT rebuilding.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=401098&hilit=rebuilding

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Fri 17, 2021 8:38 am 
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At one stage there were a number of machines/kits offered up for CRT rebuilding.(attached image).

This is all becoming rapid ancient history and I have discussed this on other threads on other forums for many years now.

I could see the writing was on the wall for CRT repairs or reproductions nearly 20 years ago now.

This is why, for my own use at least, I created a CRT farm of NOS CRT's, a little like Noah's Ark. At the time a friend told me I was crazy, but, the large collection I have is appreciating in value, as CRT's are, like the mineral on Avatar, very rapidly becoming unobtainium.


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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Fri 17, 2021 11:55 pm 
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I doubt anybody ever made much money out of operating these plants.
Here's an ad for one in Australia, from 1963.

I bought tubes from them a few years later, it was a very low-budget operation. They had moved to an old shop in Stanmore by then.

Attachment:
Sure_Brite_Dec_1963.png
Sure_Brite_Dec_1963.png [ 230.97 KiB | Viewed 884 times ]

That ad was before we went decimal currency in Oz!

There were a few such operations in Sydney. They were all poverty-stricken businesses. The 3 majors, Thomas, AWV and Philips, all had tube making plants in Sydney and they all did tube re-builds as well. So the competition drove prices down.

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Sat 18, 2021 1:03 am 
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The $2875 selling price of the Color Champion setup in 1969 says to me the "profit-making" had a long wait while the equipment was paid down. To be successful, the shop offering the service would need to be located where a relatively large customer base was on tap. The typical small-town one or two man shop would likely never be able to pay it off.

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Sun 19, 2021 11:27 am 
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irob2345 wrote:
The 3 majors, Thomas, AWV and Philips, all had tube making plants in Sydney and they all did tube re-builds as well. So the competition drove prices down.


Back in the early 1980's I had a defective 12LP4 CRT, it was sent from NZ to Thomas in AU.

The 12LP4 was non-aluminized. Thomas Re-screened it and re-gunned it too, and they aluminized the faceplate and converted it into a 12kP4. I still have it in the box that Thomas packed it in. At the time I was astonished and beyond impressed with what they did. But a few colleagues thought ho-hum, but I don't think they had any idea of the technical difficulty of what Thomas did.


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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Sep Wed 22, 2021 8:58 am 
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Now that CRTs have become Unobtainium, has anyone had success with rejuvenating old ones?

What methods worked best for you?

I have a 21CBP4 that's been hibernating for 50 years. It reads almost no emission, about 5% when left on nominal heater voltage for half an hour.
My experience many years back with this particular brand of CRT (AWV) is they don't respond to the cathode tickling that works for most other tubes. So I haven't tried anything yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Nov Fri 26, 2021 7:58 am 
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Location: Warsaw, Poland
So far I have been rebuilding small picture tubes. I am in the process of building a device for extending necks and connecting electron guns to necks for larger CRTs and this is my main limitation at the moment. I am also working on the technology of producing heaters for electron guns. This is important in the process of fabricating new electron guns or repairing old ones.


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lab2.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Nov Fri 26, 2021 9:48 am 
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Location: British Columbia
irob2345 wrote:
Now that CRTs have become Unobtainium, has anyone had success with rejuvenating old ones?

What methods worked best for you?

I have a 21CBP4 that's been hibernating for 50 years. It reads almost no emission, about 5% when left on nominal heater voltage for half an hour.
My experience many years back with this particular brand of CRT (AWV) is they don't respond to the cathode tickling that works for most other tubes. So I haven't tried anything yet.


To be honest all of the CRTs used in early TVs have been unobtainable for decades, unless one runs into a NOS one. Most are either salvaged from junked sets, or rebuilds. The method I have heard of for waking up a disused tube is to run it at a slightly elevated heater voltage for several hours, so if a 6.3 volt tube you run it at 8 volts for a couple of hours, then check it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Nov Fri 26, 2021 12:24 pm 
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Be careful when overheating the cathode. Ideally, you should follow the emission current in the Wehnelt cylinder circuit and see if this current is increasing. If not, the cathode is completely exhausted. For such CRTs, only a rebuild is the solution. Overheating of good cathodes for too long is also detrimental to them. Oxides, especially of barium, evaporate, destroying the emissions.

On the page below, a brief account of my successful experiments. I haven't translated everything yet, sorry - no time.

http://www.pwl.mikrokontroler.pl/tv_ret ... egen_e.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Nov Fri 26, 2021 4:58 pm 
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AlekZ, you might want to mention that you are in Poland and have been working on European CRTs.

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 Post subject: Re: Windsor Electronics CRT rebuilder 1965
PostPosted: Nov Fri 26, 2021 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Nov Thu 25, 2021 7:47 pm
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Location: Warsaw, Poland
I just added the location information on my profile. Every day politicians tell us that we are citizens of the world :). And it is a bit like that, because the picture tubes I tried to repair did not come from Europe. I guess it doesn't really matter where I'm from. We have Polish, Soviet, German and Czechoslovak picture tubes in old antique equipment, and I really intend to repair them. Such is the research material here, but the CRT technology was similar everywhere.

Regarding the rehearsed routines, I'm not vaporizing the aluminum yet. Most of the time I practice on picture tubes from my friends who have picture tubes with broken necks. This is the worst case still repairable.


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